Codex: Chaos Legions rumours

[svien187]

the iw character is missing

[theDarkGeneral]

Once 6th Edition hits, therumors and importance of HQs changing slots for specific units will be much more apparent.

[lethlis]

and although it is specific wargear, there is nothing to stop you from converting your own and using him as the character. For example you could convert a kharn who uses a spear, same rules but it is your own. Sure it is more limiting, but there is nothing to stop you from creating your own.

[SideshowLucifer]

I hope that means the percentages will be back. I have heard both yes and no, so I remain in the dark.

[Duchat]

I read a lot of funny comments on here. First, a lot of the legion players seem to want to have everything be able to have the marks and not be limited to what types of units and machines they can take. Second they seem to want a fluffy army, but then go on about the above and do not want to be limited to unit types and machines that make sense for the legion.
You can't really have fluff and ignore it all at once people. I'd love for the mark of khorne to make things have to move towards the nearest enemy again and at the same time allow you to put it on a havoc squad. There is your fluff that you would never play.

I'm a long time Night Lords and Thousand Sons player, and I haven't even had a small desire to touch anything chaos since this last codex was released. In my mind, any mixing of cults and marks should have animosity to overcome. I'd also love a rule that makes it hard to pass command tests against Night Lords instead of them always relegated to raptors with hit and run.
In the end, I'm guessing each cult will have a single unit that embodies their most basic tenet and strengths and weaknesses.

I also don't care if special characters are needed to unlock the cults as troops because nearly every other codex has to suffer the same thing. They want to make cool stories and make up their own characters too. Honestly, get over it. Anything will be better then this abomination of a codex we have been stuck with for the less decade or so.

Hopefully the days of the renegade codex is over. I enjoy reading 3E codex much more than 4E, but I can't play it, and the few attempts I've had using it against current armies is even worse a slaughter than the current version. Defending with plague marines and assaulting with zerkers is all that they left us.

[Duchat]

I read a lot of funny comments on here. First, a lot of the legion players seem to want to have everything be able to have the marks and not be limited to what types of units and machines they can take. Second they seem to want a fluffy army, but then go on about the above and do not want to be limited to unit types and machines that make sense for the legion.
You can't really have fluff and ignore it all at once people. I'd love for the mark of khorne to make things have to move towards the nearest enemy again and at the same time allow you to put it on a havoc squad. There is your fluff that you would never play.

I'm a long time Night Lords and Thousand Sons player, and I haven't even had a small desire to touch anything chaos since this last codex was released. In my mind, any mixing of cults and marks should have animosity to overcome. I'd also love a rule that makes it hard to pass command tests against Night Lords instead of them always relegated to raptors with hit and run.
In the end, I'm guessing each cult will have a single unit that embodies their most basic tenet and strengths and weaknesses.

I also don't care if special characters are needed to unlock the cults as troops because nearly every other codex has to suffer the same thing. They want to make cool stories and make up their own characters too. Honestly, get over it. Anything will be better then this abomination of a codex we have been stuck with for the less decade or so.

Hopefully the days of the renegade codex is over. I enjoy reading 3E codex much more than 4E, but I can't play it, and the few attempts I've had using it against current armies is even worse a slaughter than the current version. Defending with plague marines and assaulting with zerkers is all that they left us.

[drbored]

Honestly, I'm not eager for any developments that go backwards, back to old Codices like 4th or 3.5 or even the current Space Marines Codex. I want something fresh. I want them to push the limits of 6th edition right from the get-go so that Chaos stands on its own again as a full, vibrant force with a lot of different options for army builds. I hope they come out more akin to Dark Eldar, (not in that everything is T3 and a 5+ save) in that there are a large variety of flexible army builds, and the book isn't restricted to only one or two good armies.

The last thing I want is a 'test codex' for 6th edition that quickly becomes outshined by later Codices.

[foehammer888]

If cult players want some of their 3.5ed flavor back, I think they should leave the mark system out of it. Marks should be for aligning standard CSM units with a particular god.

If you want more variety of cult units, build it into the cult unit entry. Khorne Beserker - troop choice.
Models in the unit may choose from one of the following options:
- All models in the unit maybe given bikes for +x points per model. If this option is taken the unit becomes a FA choice.
- All models in the unit replace bolt pistol and power armor for terminator armor and combi-bolter for +Y points. If this option is taken the unit becomes an Elite choice.
...

Boom. Cult army flexibility, no need for a two-tiered mark system. Also will prevent some of the more unbalance combos.

[lethlis]

I like it, have each cult unit take up a page like the royal court does and do it that way. That could be pretty cool, and it would be convenient.

[DuskRaider]

If cult players want some of their 3.5ed flavor back, I think they should leave the mark system out of it. Marks should be for aligning standard CSM units with a particular god.

If you want more variety of cult units, build it into the cult unit entry. Khorne Beserker - troop choice.
Models in the unit may choose from one of the following options:
- All models in the unit maybe given bikes for +x points per model. If this option is taken the unit becomes a FA choice.
- All models in the unit replace bolt pistol and power armor for terminator armor and combi-bolter for +Y points. If this option is taken the unit becomes an Elite choice.
...

Boom. Cult army flexibility, no need for a two-tiered mark system. Also will prevent some of the more unbalance combos.

foehammer has the right idea. It would be easy peasy for GW to do, and it would make all of us happy.

[Spider-pope]

Um, the Cultist/Traitor Guard thing goes farther back than the Eye of Terror. They were in 2nd Edition, dropped for the 3rd Edition mini-dex, brought back as a sideline for Alpha Legion and Word Bearer builds, and then dropped again for the "Less-Is-More" mantra of the whole 4.5 fiasco that hit us with a whale-sized ugly stick. It also doesn't help that GW let Relic tease us with 6 Dawn of War games with Cultists as cheap cannon fodder!

Not quite. The Cultist elements of Chaos had their own seperate army list in the back of the 2nd Edition Codex: Chaos, they were not part of the main Chaos list fielded with Chaos Space Marines.

What i have a hard time believing is the whole "traitor guard" aspect. I can absolutely buy that cultists will get a unit entry. I just have a hard time believing that after making so much fuss about the Chaos Space Marines being the focus of the Codex, ditching daemons to further strengthen this in the process, that GW would then dilute the army by shoving in masses of rules for evil Imperial Guard.

[Damien 1427]

If there are Traitor Guard, that's probably shorthand for upgrades for Cultists. I can imagine Cultists will have crap stats and something like the old Firearms rule, and probably a 6+ or even no save at all, in mobs of up to fifty and being dirt cheap. Perhaps you can upgrade them to have flak jackets (5+) and lasguns, which then gives you rudimentary Traitor Guard. I honestly doubt they'd have two seperate entries. Not in a CSM book.

[The French Guy]

I read "krak jackets",
Go go cultist suicide teams!!

[Son of Perturabo]

I've been talking to the manager of my local GW and have a potential new bit of info on the release date.

Obviously its fairly solid (or at least as rumours can be) that 6th ed if landing in June/July. What I've been told however is that all GW managers have got to go on a training course in June which is entitled to the effect of "How to handle a large major release". The interesting point is this; there was no such course for the release of 8th ed Fantasy.

Now my other sources have also changed their tune to the starter set being DA vs CSM (which makes me look a little silly after posting that it wouldn't be but hey such is the nature of rumours! I'll start warming up the humble pie!).

Anyway, what is looking possible based on this information is that we might see the release of 6th ed followed by the simultaneous release of a new Codex: Chaos Space Marines/Legions AND Codex: Dark Angels. Least thats his assumption but until he's been I'm unlikely to find out anything else on that front.

[Theocracity]

I've been talking to the manager of my local GW and have a potential new bit of info on the release date.

Obviously its fairly solid (or at least as rumours can be) that 6th ed if landing in June/July. What I've been told however is that all GW managers have got to go on a training course in June which is entitled to the effect of "How to handle a large major release". The interesting point is this; there was no such course for the release of 8th ed Fantasy.

Now my other sources have also changed their tune to the starter set being DA vs CSM (which makes me look a little silly after posting that it wouldn't be but hey such is the nature of rumours! I'll start warming up the humble pie!).

Anyway, what is looking possible based on this information is that we might see the release of 6th ed followed by the simultaneous release of a new Codex: Chaos Space Marines/Legions AND Codex: Dark Angels. Least thats his assumption but until he's been I'm unlikely to find out anything else on that front.

I think it's more likely that they identified customer service issues with the last major release, and are implementing a training seminar to improve procedure. Pretty standard corporate behavior.

[Son of Perturabo]

I think it's more likely that they identified customer service issues with the last major release, and are implementing a training seminar to improve procedure. Pretty standard corporate behavior.

Chances are you're right and that both me and him are over thinking what its going to be about. However its not impossible that they'd release both at the same time. Everybody acknowledges that the Dark Angels book is horrifically out of date and even more in need of an update than CSM. With that in mind and the likelihood that DA are in the starter..........

Well they could get alot of mileage in WD out of a joint release in terms of exploring the background of the two armies and the whole issue of The Fallen. Tie in a few Black Library releases that cover that particular arc of the DA background and boom! Massive money spinner for GW.

That said a customer service seminar is alot more likely (read boring!)

[Theocracity]

Indeed. I will say though, while I don't think it's related to anything too crazy, it could be a way to train store associates on the details of 6th and potentially any errata they release or existing armies. If there are significant changes, they might want their associates knowledgeable about any broad changes to existing armies so they're not struggling to give advice to players about how things have changed from the codex they're buying.

They might already have a process for those kind of updates though, or forgo it entirely.

[theDarkGeneral]

Well I have some thoughts/opinions on the current subject from the more recent rumors...

*Chaos Cultists: It's definitely a possibility. Would I field them? Only if I could give them the Mark of Khorne!

*Traitor Guard: Doesn't belong in a Chaos Space Marines/Chaos Legions Codex! If players want to play with them, Forge World has 3 amazing lists from their Siege of Vraks campaign, which can easily be altered to fit Tzeentch & Slaanesh as well. Or simply use the current Imperial Guard Codex (minus Special Characters) and go from there. Apocalypse is here for a reason...

*Cult vs Marks: From my understanding this problem was solved. Personally to me it makes sense for Word Bearers or Iron Warriors to have the ability to take the Mark of Khorne on their basic, non-Cult units. I feel that players will be able to take themed Armies based off of a single Legion, perhaps gain some small benefits from doing so, and still be able to forge a list of "skittles" where multiple Legion type units are employed into the same Army.

*Daemons: I'd be VERY surprised and bothered if GW did indeed take Daemons out of the upcoming Chaos Legions Codex. The thought that players HAVE to play Apocalypse to be able to field both on the same table is a bit harsh. BUT, it won't of course deter me from purchasing most of the cool new models and enjoying a new Codex! I do believe it'd MAKE SENSE if they kept at least the version of summoned lessor Daemons; Chaos Furies, Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Horrors & Plaguebearers.

[Scribe of Khorne]

Thats the whole issue. There was a lot of expectation for a Legions focus. Cultists, and Daemons can fit into that, but Traitor Guard? Who cares?

I am still hoping that we are just waiting for more info and the book, but with an october target at this point? Thats a long ways off.

[Son of Perturabo]

Well I have some thoughts/opinions on the current subject from the more recent rumors...

*Chaos Cultists: It's definitely a possibility. Would I field them? Only if I could give them the Mark of Khorne!

*Traitor Guard: Doesn't belong in a Chaos Space Marines/Chaos Legions Codex! If players want to play with them, Forge World has 3 amazing lists from their Siege of Vraks campaign, which can easily be altered to fit Tzeentch & Slaanesh as well. Or simply use the current Imperial Guard Codex (minus Special Characters) and go from there. Apocalypse is here for a reason...

*Cult vs Marks: From my understanding this problem was solved. Personally to me it makes sense for Word Bearers or Iron Warriors to have the ability to take the Mark of Khorne on their basic, non-Cult units. I feel that players will be able to take themed Armies based off of a single Legion, perhaps gain some small benefits from doing so, and still be able to forge a list of "skittles" where multiple Legion type units are employed into the same Army.

*Daemons: I'd be VERY surprised and bothered if GW did indeed take Daemons out of the upcoming Chaos Legions Codex. The thought that players HAVE to play Apocalypse to be able to field both on the same table is a bit harsh. BUT, it won't of course deter me from purchasing most of the cool new models and enjoying a new Codex! I do believe it'd MAKE SENSE if they kept at least the version of summoned lessor Daemons; Chaos Furies, Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Horrors & Plaguebearers.

Good to hear that the cult vs mark issue has been resolved.

As for Cultists I'd include them in my Iron Warriors. They make a nice cheap speed bump to tie up enemy units whilst I shoot up their mates!! That said I'd also take traitor guard if I could and the idea of a cultists entry having various options similar to inquisitor henchmen appeals and makes abit of sense. The way I look at it is that the cultists employed by the Word Bearers are literally just that armed cultists with little to no military training. The Alpha Legion cultists by comparison would have some training to allow them to commit acts of sabotage and may include guardsmen (think the operatives in Legion those of you that have read that book). Iron Warriors would have a mix of both and just simple slaves. A multi-option entry would be simple and fluffy. Sooooo, any idea if thats the form a cultists entry might take?

Also I'd be surprised as well if Daemons don't feature in some way. Wouldn't imagine they'll go back to how they were in 3.5, but I'd hope you could give them marks so that they better represent in game the daemons they are meant to be (Khorne +1 Attack, Nurgle +1 Toughness etc).