Codex: Chaos Legions rumours

[Scribe of Khorne]

Remember people, these rumors are just the things we've heard are *NEW*.

Still keeping Raptors/Assault Marines. Still keeping Havocs. Still keeping Vindicators, Predators, Rhinos, Land Raiders, and standard and Chosen Chaos Marines. Still keeping all the cult troops (Noise Marines, Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, Thousand Sons) and still keeping Terminators, Chaos Marine Bikers, and, as far as we can tell, plenty of the same Chaos Marine Special Characters. All of those entries are still very much Chaos Marines.

Just because we're *also* getting cultists, beasts, traitor guard, and a dragon doesn't mean the CHAOS MARINE aspect is disappearing.

I think the issue is that all you listed for the Marines is..the 4th edition book. Within my gaming group we have 4 of 8 with chaos armies. 3 of them are hardcore 'legion' players. They want new marine stuff, not cultists, not traitors. So while the new* things are nice, great, but it doesnt do anything for those who are looking for new things for their marine army.


* If they pan out

[Dominatrix]

If cult players want some of their 3.5ed flavor back, I think they should leave the mark system out of it. Marks should be for aligning standard CSM units with a particular god.

If you want more variety of cult units, build it into the cult unit entry. Khorne Beserker - troop choice.
Models in the unit may choose from one of the following options:
- All models in the unit maybe given bikes for +x points per model. If this option is taken the unit becomes a FA choice.
- All models in the unit replace bolt pistol and power armor for terminator armor and combi-bolter for +Y points. If this option is taken the unit becomes an Elite choice.
...

Boom. Cult army flexibility, no need for a two-tiered mark system. Also will prevent some of the more unbalance combos.

I am assuming that by "..." you mean that apart from your two examples there is also the option for cult assault marines, havocs, characters etc. If that is the case then fine I guess that works as well. The two tier mark system was an idea that I have convinced my gaming buddies to playtest for some months now. It is not the only way to handle legion lists, your idea is just as good. What I want to see above everything else in the new codex is cult units not being limited to tactical squads.

[Culgore]

My head hurts guys. As a guy who has a model range that goes back to 1987, GW is making me mad.

Please, anyone, are the rumours leading that I must take a predetermined special character to field my noise marines? I have a boat load. Like 12 squads of 6. Like 4 squads with 4 blast masters, and 8 squads with one blast master. I have about 15K in tanks, dreds, characters, more than 42 terminators, and close to 120 marines.

My army was invalidated in 5th. Brought back with Apocolypse. I literally have not played 40K in 4 years because of the chaos nerf, and good God Almighty, my other army is Tyranids..... Oh boy.

it wouldn't be so bad if the Slaanesh characters didn't suck so bad. Lucious blew wad, and the psycho biker with 80's hair should have put the writer and sculptor at risk for great bodily harm. No way I want a demon weapon that strikes at Str4, one a normal foot slogging character, and has no invulnerable save.

Amen brother, GW gets one shot with me. I have played Death Guard since day 1 of 40k. My 5 plague marine squads are going to get crushed into the Elite slot? Good thing I don't want to use this dreadnought... Or terminators...

The entire hq force switching plan has been tucked since the get-go. Every game you play you have to include that HQ... Such a dumb move on Gw's part. Make one multipart kit that can represent any kind of HQ. That would crush sales.

[SamaNagol]

The Chaos codex should theoretically be the biggest and have the most unit entries. I dont mind having Traitor Guard/Cultists/Zombies or whatever generic human meatshields. But they should be there for flavour. They aren't ever going to be a serious unit. Human auxiliaries should just have basic weapon options and be cheap and unremarkable so that people can take them for characterful armies.

I would like to see Daemons back properly as it adds to the difference in the lists between loyalist and Chaos.

And if Marks actually offer expanded benefits rather than generic +1s to stats plus access to wargear, that would be good. Noise Marine Terminators et al.

But this is all wishlisting. I just wanted to point out that giving people back the 'characterful' unit choices they miss from the 3.5 dex isn't too hard.

[LotusCorgi]

Hrm...anyone heard anyfink about traitor/cultist models? They've always been a big write off for GW. Are we still gonna be mashing up catachan and maurader models?

[Scribe of Khorne]

Hrm...anyone heard anyfink about traitor/cultist models? They've always been a big write off for GW. Are we still gonna be mashing up catachan and maurader models?

No, its been said they will be in the starter box, and will be muscular, but better in scale then the current plastics you mentioned.

[KarlPedder]

The Chaos codex should theoretically be the biggest and have the most unit entries. I dont mind having Traitor Guard/Cultists/Zombies or whatever generic human meatshields. But they should be there for flavour.

I'm sorry but this is so wrong in so many ways there should be no units that are included just for "Flavour" units that don't bring anything to the table by accident is bad enough but it happens. Including units where their tabletop performance was never really a concern because they were only added to satisfy some fluff nuts OCD and do nothing but cause pointless codex bloat .

[clancy]

"Not to pee on parades here, but as much as I disdain the idea of a "flying dragon thingy" for Chaos, it seems rather in keeping with certain HH fluff regarding the Mechanicum and an Order of the Dragon... just saying."

-A Villain

[Gorbad Ironclaw]

I think the issue is that all you listed for the Marines is..the 4th edition book. Within my gaming group we have 4 of 8 with chaos armies. 3 of them are hardcore 'legion' players. They want new marine stuff, not cultists, not traitors. So while the new* things are nice, great, but it doesnt do anything for those who are looking for new things for their marine army.

But that's the same for every new book released. If you are only interested in running a self-limited small subsection of the list then you run the risk of new things not being for you. So you are either going to have to approach the list and any new additions with a flexible mind or you are going to have to accept that GW might not have catered specifically to your idea of a list. That applies to a CSM book as much as it applies to the Ork Codex, or the High Elf book or whatever.

Personally I hope GW show us a more varied idea of Chaos than just spiky Space Marines. There are lots of ideas to draw on, I'm sure many of them could be adapted (or already fit well) for people who want to play this or that Legion, but I hope GW don't let themselves be restricted to just classic (cookie-cutter) perceptions of stuff that will fit the Legions.

[Flatline]

Just a quick fluff point for all those who are saying that they don't want cultists/traitor Guard in their chaos marine codex - The Space Marines and Imperial Guard were only split up AFTER the Horus Heresey. If you are running one of the original nine traitor Legions then they SHOULD be a mixed force or marines and guardsmen since that is how they were structured during the Great Crusade.

I think that it is pretty likely that the cultist/guardsmen unit will be structured along the lines of the Inquisitorial Henchmen and could well be seen by GW as a way of replacing the lesser daemons - a unit they have never produced any models for!

[phreak0]

remember, there used to be cultists in the codex a while back, they were great meatshields.

[SamaNagol]

They would in no way be anything like Lesser Daemons. Deep Striking models that can assault when they arrive, have 2A base and WS/S4 with invulnerable saves. They def won't be anything like the hordes of human auxiliaries.

I would prefer to see humans and actual Daemons in the codex though.

[Bad monkey]

My head hurts guys. As a guy who has a model range that goes back to 1987, GW is making me mad.

Please, anyone, are the rumours leading that I must take a predetermined special character to field my noise marines? I have a boat load. Like 12 squads of 6. Like 4 squads with 4 blast masters, and 8 squads with one blast master. I have about 15K in tanks, dreds, characters, more than 42 terminators, and close to 120 marines.

My army was invalidated in 5th. Brought back with Apocolypse. I literally have not played 40K in 4 years because of the chaos nerf, and good God Almighty, my other army is Tyranids..... Oh boy.

it wouldn't be so bad if the Slaanesh characters didn't suck so bad. Lucious blew wad, and the psycho biker with 80's hair should have put the writer and sculptor at risk for great bodily harm. No way I want a demon weapon that strikes at Str4, one a normal foot slogging character, and has no invulnerable save.

This is what My concerns are too.


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?yal411

[Theocracity]

But that's the same for every new book released. If you are only interested in running a self-limited small subsection of the list then you run the risk of new things not being for you. So you are either going to have to approach the list and any new additions with a flexible mind or you are going to have to accept that GW might not have catered specifically to your idea of a list. That applies to a CSM book as much as it applies to the Ork Codex, or the High Elf book or whatever.

Personally I hope GW show us a more varied idea of Chaos than just spiky Space Marines. There are lots of ideas to draw on, I'm sure many of them could be adapted (or already fit well) for people who want to play this or that Legion, but I hope GW don't let themselves be restricted to just classic (cookie-cutter) perceptions of stuff that will fit the Legions.

Hear, hear. Things are almost certainly going to change - its up to us to not limit our perceptions and allow it to be for the better.

[omegoku]

But that's the same for every new book released. If you are only interested in running a self-limited small subsection of the list then you run the risk of new things not being for you. So you are either going to have to approach the list and any new additions with a flexible mind or you are going to have to accept that GW might not have catered specifically to your idea of a list. That applies to a CSM book as much as it applies to the Ork Codex, or the High Elf book or whatever.

Personally I hope GW show us a more varied idea of Chaos than just spiky Space Marines. There are lots of ideas to draw on, I'm sure many of them could be adapted (or already fit well) for people who want to play this or that Legion, but I hope GW don't let themselves be restricted to just classic (cookie-cutter) perceptions of stuff that will fit the Legions.

I second your view.
More Chaos options that are not just spiky marines. We already have 5 or so Marine Codex to choose from. I am sure there are many Blood Angel players who think some of the new options (The Sanguinor, Librarian Dreadnought,etc) are stupid and will leave them out of their existing armies. There are many other Blood Angel players who love those units and use them every chance they get. I know my Space Marines will never use a Thunderfire Cannon, unless they really improve the model and flavour of it, but I have a buddy whose marines like to bring 3 of them to the field.

The only problem with this method is if it means the existing options and options that are really looked for get left out as a result.
A strong Mark system could solve that issue though.

A Lord can take one mark for X points
If the Lord has mark of X it allows him access to addtional wargear, and Chaos gifts. It also allows one cult Elite choice in power armour as troops.

I hope that GW move away from the Special Character unlocks a certain build model when they jump to 6th Edition.
We started playing in 3rd Edition when Special Character was a dirty word, and a lot of us still don't like using them much.

[Spider-pope]

Just a quick fluff point for all those who are saying that they don't want cultists/traitor Guard in their chaos marine codex - The Space Marines and Imperial Guard were only split up AFTER the Horus Heresey. If you are running one of the original nine traitor Legions then they SHOULD be a mixed force or marines and guardsmen since that is how they were structured during the Great Crusade.

I think that it is pretty likely that the cultist/guardsmen unit will be structured along the lines of the Inquisitorial Henchmen and could well be seen by GW as a way of replacing the lesser daemons - a unit they have never produced any models for!

No the Imperial Guard were formed from the Imperial Army, units that may have fought alongside the Astartes Legions but were certainly not part of them. So no a force based on the Traitor Legion should not be a mixed force because that is not how they were structured during the Great Crusade.

And Lesser Daemons got plenty of models produced - Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Plaguebearers etc. etc. That unit entry existed solely to try to prevent existing players who'd fielded Daemon heavy armies prior to the codex split from being stuck without a playable force.

I've no problem with Chaos Cultists being in the army, as a replacement or supplement to existing units. It's Traitor Guard i don't see the point in.

[ChrisMurray]

I agree, a human element is very much needed but traitor guard should either have their codex or just be kept to the FW lists\IG count as. Cultist or other chaos worshipping humans is whats needed (and expected).

[Theocracity]

I really do think the reference to traitor guard just means that unarmored pistol / CCW cultists can be upgraded to have lasguns and flak jackets. I wouldn't read any more into it than that.

[foehammer888]

No the Imperial Guard were formed from the Imperial Army, units that may have fought alongside the Astartes Legions but were certainly not part of them. So no a force based on the Traitor Legion should not be a mixed force because that is not how they were structured during the Great Crusade.

And Lesser Daemons got plenty of models produced - Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Plaguebearers etc. etc. That unit entry existed solely to try to prevent existing players who'd fielded Daemon heavy armies prior to the codex split from being stuck without a playable force.

I've no problem with Chaos Cultists being in the army, as a replacement or supplement to existing units. It's Traitor Guard i don't see the point in.

Agree. In the heresy the guard and SM were not part of the same formation. The Imperial Army and the Legions were seperate entities. They were related in that both the Legions and the Imperial Army were under direct command of the Primarchs as warzone commanders. However, just as a primarch would command Legion Company commanders towards specific objectives, they would command the ranking Imperial Army commander as to the objectives of their troops.

The same technically happens in the "current" 40k timeline, but its a matter of the imperial army voluntarily submitting to the command of a SM commander, by the Codex they just don't have to do so.

[brassangel]

Amen brother, GW gets one shot with me. I have played Death Guard since day 1 of 40k. My 5 plague marine squads are going to get crushed into the Elite slot? Good thing I don't want to use this dreadnought... Or terminators...

The entire hq force switching plan has been tucked since the get-go. Every game you play you have to include that HQ... Such a dumb move on Gw's part. Make one multipart kit that can represent any kind of HQ. That would crush sales.

I think it's a borrow from PP. Special Characters add a lot of flavor and story, while also unlocking certain build types. That is no different than picking a caster in WarmaHordes to play a specific style with one's faction. While I see through the blinders, a lot of folks here - like 99% - believe that everything GW adopts from PP only makes them better.