Codex: Chaos Legions rumours

[Animatronica]

I'd be happy if they just put a new spine on the 4th Edition Chaos codex. That thing was still the best tome ever written for 40k.

[Scribe of Khorne]

I'd be happy if they just put a new spine on the 4th Edition Chaos codex. That thing was still the best tome ever written for 40k.

Noted: May either the Lord Emperor, or Infernal Powers have mercy on your soul, as your mind is clearly already lost to us.

[Animatronica]

Haha, sure it was messy in places and a little broken, but it was exciting, and you could make 100 different armies out of it, it was inspiring. People are fixating massively on the force organization thing, because they want to build cohesive armies under a theme, not watered down, they could do that in that old codex, but they paid for every bonus they got. By comparison the 5th edition codex is just dull. i will always worship the Dark powers, i don't want them to be overpowered, i want them to be fun and insanely characterful.

[Animatronica]

Haha, oh right, i'm with you now! I'll get off my little chaos star shaped soap box just over here... to bring it back on topic Some of the new rumours trickling through have me pretty excited, i'm fascinated by the rumours of this chaos dragon thing, if they tweak things just right i think we will enter a golden age of Chaotic warfare. I cannot wait.

Something to help us bone Necrons would be great too!

[Reivax26]

I agree with the guy who mentioned the system where you modify a cult troopers stats and cost based on how they are equipped. Like putting Plague Marines on bikes is +25 points a model or some such as that. Terminator armor is such and such points a model, stuff like that. They retain all their special rules as they are but you pay extra to change how they get around. I think this actually makes a lot of sense and would be easy as hell to implement.

[lethlis]

Yep, each cult unit gets a page dedicated to it, and then they just have a section for what each slot does to them and how many points per model it is. Would not be too bad.

[nagash42]

just show me the emperor's children page if they do it like that. It sounds good to me

[foehammer888]

Ok, I am going to go out on a limb and say that GW has to do something other than special character unlocks for this "chaos legions" book, and here's why.

That "character unlock system works for Codex Space Marines. Why? Because there are 1000 loyalist SM chapters (approximate), and the list needs to be able to represent almost all of them. Essentially all but the chapters which get their own seperate books. Basically there is a "generic SM list" and, then special characters are provided to allow you to create unique forces for a few select "famous" chapters which fight slightly differently than the average SM force.

However, if, when developing this Chaos Legions codex, GW is interpretting "Legions" as being the 9 traitor legions, then there is no "generic CSM" list. Every list from that books must be one of thsoe 9 traitor legions. To use special character unlocks to achieve this would mean that literally every list would have to include a special character, except maybe black legion. Most are concerned with cult-unit FOC swaps, but there are 4 other legions which this would impact as well.

I don't doubt that special characters in the book might unlock different abilities, but I can't see that being the primary game mechanic for building a themed legion list. This book should be unique in that it will require a list building mechanic somewhere between a C:SM book (which covers hundreds of chapters) and the SW book (which covers only 1 chapter).

just show me the emperor's children page if they do it like that. It sounds good to me

well, the EC are actually different in that, unlike the other 3 cult armies, not all Emperor's children became noise marines, but all TS, DG, and WE marines became their cult equivilent, at least according to recently fluff.

[Dazza612]

I keep on hearing cult legions, being able to differentiate between plague marines and death guard, lots of talk about world eaters, thousand sons and posts from a passionate emperor's children player. While I play both World Eaters and Iron Warriors I hope ALL 9 legions get special rules and NOT JUST cult marines and with the right special rules it should be very easy to do!

[MooseOnTheLoose]

Re-reading everything it looks much like this which makes a some sense in one of two ways, good or bad as that may seem:

The list in basic set up is Black Legion.
-Undivided marks.
-Cults in elite.
-Troops likely Marines and Cultist.
-Marks do not equal cult status (eg. as current codex, Death Guard are not Nurgle Marines)
or
-Marks do equal cult status (eg. Nurgle is Death Guard)
-Cults are upgrades of Marine/Terminator/Bike/Havoc/Raptor via marks (allows Black Legion to take elite cult marines still or options to do full cult armies)

HQ with a mark (eg: Nurgle) does:
-Moves Cult to Troops (eg: Death Guard Marine)
or
-Allows upgrading units/unlocks a troops selection (eg: Marine to Death Guard Marine)

HQ Named Character (eg: Typhus) does:
-Cultist become Plague Zombies
or
-Moves Cult Marine to Troops (eg: Death Guard from elite to Troop)

I used Nurgle/Death Guard as the example as the Typhus rumour about cultist to zombies. Now with that said I don't see taking Typhus both alters a core troop (cultist to plague zombies) and a foc move (Death Guard Marine to troop). So to me it makes more sense if a marks = cult (eg. Nurgle is Death Guard) taking a Nurgle marked HQ lets you "move Death Guard marine to troops" at the least and possibly gives other marines an "x" amount of point to upgrade to a Death Guard Biker etc. While taking Typhus being a Nurgle marked HQ allows this as well, but his actual alteration to the foc is cultist to zombies. So to me there could very well be a line that reads "a HQ with a mark of chaos, may field its cult marine as troops and allows for the marking of other units making them from the same cult". Then you would find under the other units entries for example:

Chaos Terminatiors:
Looks like the current entry with weapon options, etc etc.
Now instead of just "make take a icon of Nurgle etc" it could read:
May upgrade the unit to Nurgle or Death Guard Terminators for "x" points per model as per page "x" (which would be the units entry and rule blurb earlier in the book) and either a blurb in the armies rules or in its cult entry would be "a Nurgle/Death Guard upgrade grants +1T, Blight Grenades and Feel No Pain.

Seems to fit the rumours when thought out, it also would match up and look much like Grey Knight and Necron entries (which would be both geared to 6th ed more then the other codex) for upgrading and layout. Leaves open Black Legion being able to take cult as elites but not rare cult terminators, the four main cults are happy. Alpha Legion can't complain with the addition of cultist, Iron Warriors really have nothing overly special to include, maybe a warsmith upgrade/entry somewhere and Night Lords get reduced to being "raptor cults", and we just aren't sure for Word Bearers. However maybe there is a Night Lord named character to move assault marine to core for them, and Word Bearers replace cultist with lesser daemons much like Typhus plus the rumours of "more daemon engines".

This fits the rumours, works well with the rumours and well maybe why it won't happen lol does the following:
Death Guard/Thousand Sons/World Eaters/Emperors Children are all happy.
Black Legion all is good as its been.
Alpha Legion happy with cultists return
*Night Lords potential for better then they have ever or status quo or "I can't believe we have been reduced too Raptor cults"
*Word Bearers potential for maybe their best representation yet or status quo or completely left out
*Iron Warriors potential to be a bit happy for a warsmith or status quo or "Why are we the neglected legion!"

*Represents my speculation of filling the needs of those legions instead of actual rumours, they could as easily say cults and Black Legion, forget the rest.

[Dazza612]

So basically a massive focus on Black legion and the cult legions with the remaining 4 legions shoe-horned into the codex!! Seems a little unfair when night lords are predominantly made up of raptor cults, iron warriors should have the best havocs in the codex, word bearers are led by dark apostles (which are like chaos chaplains) and lastly alpha legion infitrate and disrupt enemies from psychological standpoint. How is all of that anywhere near represented in what you just mentioned?

[Vestigialante]

Do we foresee models at release for the cultists? They'd be a great new kit, but considering the recent direction GW has gone, I half expect to wait 2 years after the codex release for something official.

[Wrath]

Do we foresee models at release for the cultists?

Rumored to be in the 6E starter.

[Reivax26]

Any rumors as to the proposed stats on the "Dragon"? Points cost would help as well

[Rick Blaine]

I agree with the guy who mentioned the system where you modify a cult troopers stats and cost based on how they are equipped. Like putting Plague Marines on bikes is +25 points a model or some such as that. Terminator armor is such and such points a model, stuff like that. They retain all their special rules as they are but you pay extra to change how they get around. I think this actually makes a lot of sense and would be easy as hell to implement.

I don't see how this is any better than being able to upgrade a unit of regular Bikes (or Termies, or Havocs...) to one of the four Cults. It would require a ridiculously large and complex unit entry. Look at the CSM and SM characters that can be given terminator armour. They need two separate wargear lists. Not to mention the FOC shuffling.

[Flufflyrabbit]

I don't see how this is any better than being able to upgrade a unit of regular Bikes (or Termies, or Havocs...) to one of the four Cults. It would require a ridiculously large and complex unit entry. Look at the CSM and SM characters that can be given terminator armour. They need two separate wargear lists. Not to mention the FOC shuffling.

Exactly, taking all the options into one unit entry (regular cults, chosen, terminators, bikers, etc) will at least cover an entire page and maybe more than that. Also like Rick said it will be too complex. Take Necron Royal Court as an example. It has it's own page and the options are really minimum. Chaos being a more complex army with lots of options it will really require more than a page to cover it all.

Most codici have each of their units cover half a page at most, that's pretty much the trend.. so I expect the same with Chaos.

[MagicHat]

Wolf guard have options for bikes, jump packs and terminatour armour with all the wargear of a sergeant availible and an upgrade character on one page. So certainly doable.

[Erazmus_M_Wattle]

I'm a bit disappointed but it is clear now that all those who stated that there'd be no codex before 6th hits were correct. That means we are a few months out. At best we'll have most of May, June, July to wait. Could be August or September but even as late as October before the Chaos Codex arrives. We won't really hear much at all given GWs current policy of secrecy.

In the very best case scenario this thread is going to descend into a morass of wishlisting long before any information arrives that we can even remotely rely on. We are all choking for any scrap of information. Maybe locking the thread until much nearer the time would be the best idea.

On the topic of cult marines versus normal marines with a Mark. Why is there a distinction at all. A berserker shouldn't be any different from a marine dedicated to Khorne. what originally drew the World Eaters to Khorne would be the same for any other marine. Also the act of psycho lobotomisation would be an attractive option to any Khorne servant.

What GW really needs to do is delineate the whole big four legions from the cult troops. I'm not sure how and would require a few retcons but it is arguably this which makes the codex and themed lists such a mess.

In my humble opinion the fact that the big chaos four are single unit legions was a retcon in the first place and I'd be happy if it went away.

[Dark Primus]

I heard just minutes ago a few minor rumors that might be to satisfactory to some but disappoint others. As usually take it with a truck fully loaded with salt.

The Chaos Codex is written by Phil Kelly
Chaos Cultists can be taken in squads of 30
Named characters gives the Cultists special abilities.

If it is true Phil Kelly is writing it than I am happy, people do say he writes good material.
But personally I am a bit worried about Daemon Princes'.
Special abilities to Cultists could be interesting, depending what that is of course.

[The Dude]

I have deleted a swath of off topic, no content, or agressive posts. Please keep the conversation civil and on topic.

The Dude
The Warseer Inquisition