Codex: Chaos Legions rumours

[Graystoak]

In the reality you live in, or the reality I live in?

Seriously. Traitor guard are more than just Guard armies with spikes. Where's a traitor guard list that has marks? Mutants? Spawn? Daemons? Daemon Engines? Maybe even Marines as cannon fodder herders?

And don't tell me Lost and Damned from the EoT book, either, because we both know there's zero point in using that.

Try this: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Download...F/i/IA5_RH.pdf

[DeviLution]

Jumping in on the traitor guard thing, sorry. Seriously, it takes an astartes to get +1A from khorne, what would a regular mortal get, +½A? I really don't know why marks would be something more than a visual and fluffy thing in renegade guard armies... I agree that they could use rules for daemons and such, but that's what apoc and double plays are for. I'm quite content with using the IG codex for my traitors, or the FW list.

The rumours don't seem to support them being in the new codex anyway, and even the Alpha Legion don't need upgraded cultists, we use our deviousness in other areas anyway...

Hmm, looking at it from that point of view... yeah, I can see that.

...so, did I hear correctly that the new CSM codex was to be hardcover?

Rumors elsewhere here on WarSeer, concerning the incoming price hike if I recall rightly, indicated that 40k army books would remain paperback.

[Cheexsta]

Hmm, looking at it from that point of view... yeah, I can see that.



Rumors elsewhere here on WarSeer, concerning the incoming price hike if I recall rightly, indicated that 40k army books would remain paperback.

Haven't been keeping up with the price hike threads, but I've seen it mentioned here, if anyone is interested. It's only a rumour from a redshirt, but it's worth considering.

To be honest, I don't mind if it's hardcover or soft (and if it's full colour, then all the better!). Softcover at least suggests that they'll stay in the same price bracket.

[Dark Primus]

This makes a lot of sense now you say it, as players were esentially limited to a Marine or Deamon Troop option and a few other things that could have their mark. But compared to building a legion list with the 4th Codex? Now we're limits to a single troop choice and that's about it as your other list entries only have icons not marks. And to make matters worse the only points effective HQ in the current Codex is the Deamon prince which many feel is cheep as chips.

The reason to why the current CSM Daemon Prince is cheap is because the CSM codex is little old and the other recent codex containing Monsterous creatures (Tyranids and Daemons) are more recent and have been given an enormus point increase beyond what they are really worth.
The Tyranids MC are too expensive in pts and as well are Daemon Prince from the Daemon codex.
They need to meet in the middle somewhere.
But this is little too off topic anyway.

[SlippyFist]

One thing i'm hoping for is they redesign oblits into a plastic kits and not get lazy and failcast them. the metal ones are expensive and ugly!

[Caitsidhe]

My view (and I'm not happy about it) is that we are likely losing the Daemon Prince altogether. We will get to use them via "allies."

[DeviLution]

Haven't been keeping up with the price hike threads, but I've seen it mentioned here, if anyone is interested. It's only a rumour from a redshirt, but it's worth considering.

To be honest, I don't mind if it's hardcover or soft (and if it's full colour, then all the better!). Softcover at least suggests that they'll stay in the same price bracket.

Hah! That was the post I was recalling. Right church (rumor), wrong pew (thread), hehe.

[MajorWesJanson]

My view (and I'm not happy about it) is that we are likely losing the Daemon Prince altogether. We will get to use them via "allies."

Daemon Prince is rather iconic for CSM, especially the Daemon Primarchs. The kit has parts to make it appear similar to Chaos Marines, with the backpack, armor, and shoulder pads. Daemon Princes will stay, just like Posessed and Obliterators, all of which are Daemon/CSM hybrids. Lesser and Greater Daemons, though, will likely be going away.

[WordBearer]

At the risk of wishlisting, it wouldn't take much to make me happy on Word Bearers. An entry for a Dark Apostle with Chaplain-esque rules, and an entry for Cultists. I have the fluff on them a thousand times over, not the least of which was in their Chapter Approved article. All these rumors about them getting some sort of Daemonancer unit/character are just icing on the cake.

I tend to think the same is true for most of the other Legions. Give the Iron Warriors their Warsmith and options for cybernetics. Give Alpha Legion something fitting their role in psyops and infiltrations missions. It doesn't have to be a huge amount of new options, just a couple special rules, a new unit, or a new HQ.

[Reivax26]

If there is one group that should be able to take a few units out of the Daemons codex it should be Word Bearers. Everyone else I don't think really need it. I also would like to see Chaos Lords get to take Daemonic Gifts again and the Daemon Prince be 0-1. I want to be able to customize a Chaos Lord so that he isn't just a cheap alternative to a Special Character.

[geoffkemp]

On the subject of "allies", how did the deamonhunters and witchhunters handle the guard and space-marine components. I knew they could take them, but not sure of the mechcanic in the rule-book. Would this work with regard to deamons or traitor guard in a legion dex?

[Reivax26]

I ran a custom chapter of Space Marines back in 4th that had a squad of Grey Knights being led by a Grand Master as an allies choice. They rocked. Basically back then it was 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elites, -0-2 Troops, 0-1 Fast Attack. You couldn't take Heavy's from other books. None of the choices could be the compulsory choices either so you couldn't take the 2 allied troops as your 2 troops that you had to take. It would be really easy to do this for Chaos and let them do that with Guard or Daemons as their Allies. It wouldn't break the balance of anything. I'm sure people would cry the first time you borrowed a Bloodthirster or Fateweaver from the Daemons but oh well they would get over it. Guard could give you some Platoons or maybe Melta Vets. Well, the Vets wouldn't really do you more good than Plague Marines in Rhinos except that they would have Chimera's to ride in. Although the first time anyone used a Vendetta or Valkyrie as an allied unit people would scream "cheese" and ragequit. Now that I think of it....I want to see that!

[Alaric Stormblade]

On the subject of "allies", how did the deamonhunters and witchhunters handle the guard and space-marine components. I knew they could take them, but not sure of the mechcanic in the rule-book. Would this work with regard to deamons or traitor guard in a legion dex?

You had the option to take a limited amount of choices from the Guard/Marines Codex, however they couldn't be any of your mandatory choices (so you had to take 2 of your own troops + a squad of Marines). Allied Marines were not allowed, if Grey Knights were present in the army, (same fpr Daemonhosts btw.). You had to take two of your allied troops choices, then you could take fast attack or support choices. And you couldn't have both Marines and Guard at the same time.

However with the new Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle army lists GW abandonned that system. The reason being, that they wanted you to be able to play your army with just one book and not two. Also, as the new Guard Codex was released, there were a whole lot of issues with the entries you were allowed to take. As said before GW abandoned that system, so the only way we are going to see "true" daemons in the Chaos Marine book is by copying&pasting the entries from the Daemon book. This however is possible, as they already did it with the Harlequins for Eldar and Dark Eldar and the retinue in the Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights lists.

[Cheexsta]

I ran a custom chapter of Space Marines back in 4th that had a squad of Grey Knights being led by a Grand Master as an allies choice. They rocked. Basically back then it was 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elites, -0-2 Troops, 0-1 Fast Attack. You couldn't take Heavy's from other books. None of the choices could be the compulsory choices either so you couldn't take the 2 allied troops as your 2 troops that you had to take. It would be really easy to do this for Chaos and let them do that with Guard or Daemons as their Allies. It wouldn't break the balance of anything. I'm sure people would cry the first time you borrowed a Bloodthirster or Fateweaver from the Daemons but oh well they would get over it. Guard could give you some Platoons or maybe Melta Vets. Well, the Vets wouldn't really do you more good than Plague Marines in Rhinos except that they would have Chimera's to ride in. Although the first time anyone used a Vendetta or Valkyrie as an allied unit people would scream "cheese" and ragequit. Now that I think of it....I want to see that!

Given that 6th edition has been rumoured to include rules for allies (which I can only assume will be optional, for balance reasons), I could actually see something like that being applied as a general rule. CSM armies with a few units of Daemon support would be nice (as would Daemon armies with CSM support!), and if those rumours have a grain of truth in them, then it's entirely possible.

It'd be a pretty nifty way for GW to actually encourage people to step outside of their comfort zone and get a few units from another army, and then become inspired to buy the rest of the army afterwards. Would certainly make cross-sales easier for GW employees, that's for sure.

[lantzkev]

those rumors seem largely sparked by a tournaments special rules, which were rules that it's had for a long time.

Unless I'm mistaken and these have come from elsewhere, which I doubt.

[Graystoak]

Think we're in danger of going off topic again here as this allies thing is more a 6th ed rumour than a chaos one...

But if they do allow entries from the current Deamon codex (or Imp Guard for that matter) to be used in the new Chaos Marine Codex (see what I did there?), they'll have to heavily restrict the options. There would be some truly horrible combo's if people we're given free range of another Codex. A plague marine army led by Epidemius? Iron Warriors with Baneblades? Air born Khorne Berzerkers! I can't see it happening as the beards would kill the game with their rule bending.

[Draconis]

The reason to why the current CSM Daemon Prince is cheap is because the CSM codex is little old and the other recent codex containing Monsterous creatures (Tyranids and Daemons) are more recent and have been given an enormus point increase beyond what they are really worth.
The Tyranids MC are too expensive in pts and as well are Daemon Prince from the Daemon codex.
They need to meet in the middle somewhere.
But this is little too off topic anyway.

I'm sorry, but the GK Dread Knight and DE Talos would like to have a word with you on that enormous point cost.

[Cheexsta]

Think we're in danger of going off topic again here as this allies thing is more a 6th ed rumour than a chaos one...

Fair call. I'll make any further comment on a potential Allies rule in the 6th edition thread, and encourage everyone else to do the same

[Beppo1234]

Think we're in danger of going off topic again here as this allies thing is more a 6th ed rumour than a chaos one...

But if they do allow entries from the current Deamon codex (or Imp Guard for that matter) to be used in the new Chaos Marine Codex (see what I did there?), they'll have to heavily restrict the options. There would be some truly horrible combo's if people we're given free range of another Codex. A plague marine army led by Epidemius? Iron Warriors with Baneblades? Air born Khorne Berzerkers! I can't see it happening as the beards would kill the game with their rule bending.

The allies rumor solves a the problems with no demons in the CSM book, as well as cultists, which could be represented by IG. I'm sure if it is true, they'll clarify the rules a bit. Probably that you're main army has to be a certain portion of your army, as do your HQs. And with it being a new edition, they may reprice much, so that things add up better (or worse).

[Dark Primus]

I'm sorry, but the GK Dread Knight and DE Talos would like to have a word with you on that enormous point cost.

Sure, I am happy to listen to Mr. GK Dread Knight and the DE Talos.