The background that annoys you most

[Craze_b0i]

Invaders of Nuln:

1. Gorbad (won)
2. Grom (won)
3. Thanquol (failed)
4. Tamurkhan (failed)

Compared to the dwarfs I think the citizens of Nuln get off lightly.

[Athelassan]

The novels generate a few more sackings of Nuln too - according to Vampire Wars Pieter von Carstein did, and Mannfred managed to infiltrate it and kill everyone in the palace. Those events aren't borne out by the most recent army book, mind.

[Arnizipal]

Invaders of Nuln:

1. Gorbad (won)
2. Grom (won)
3. Thanquol (failed)
4. Tamurkhan (failed)

Compared to the dwarfs I think the citizens of Nuln get off lightly.

You can't really compare one sacked Imperial city to all the lost holds of the Dwarf Realm.
A fairer comparison would be all lost cities of the Empire versus all lost Dwarf holds (although for some reason the besiegers of human cities never stay afterwards and the cities are often reconstructed - unlike Dwarf holds).

[Craze_b0i]

You can't really compare one sacked Imperial city to all the lost holds of the Dwarf Realm.
A fairer comparison would be all lost cities of the Empire versus all lost Dwarf holds (although for some reason the besiegers of human cities never stay afterwards and the cities are often reconstructed - unlike Dwarf holds).

Well Nuln is often brought up on threads as the 'most attacked place in the Empire'. My point is that even Nuln gets relatively few attacks vs dwarf holds where the goblins/skaven are attacking continually. I recall Gotrek saying somewhere every young warrior of Karaz-Karak does a period of service fighting in the tunnels below the hold.

[Dustfinger]

I'd also credit the vastness and defensiveness of dwarven holds to the dwarves inability to reclaim them right away. They're so big that whole levels don't get used for centuries by the dwarves when they are occupied. imagine how hard it would be to reclaim something like that.

[Arnizipal]

Well Nuln is often brought up on threads as the 'most attacked place in the Empire'. My point is that even Nuln gets relatively few attacks vs dwarf holds where the goblins/skaven are attacking continually. I recall Gotrek saying somewhere every young warrior of Karaz-Karak does a period of service fighting in the tunnels below the hold.

That's because Goblins and Skaven live in the same place as the Dwarfs.
Little villages in the Empire located near forest edges or mountains get attacked more often as well due to their proximity to Goblin and beastmen tribes.

[Craze_b0i]

That's because Goblins and Skaven live in the same place as the Dwarfs.
Little villages in the Empire located near forest edges or mountains get attacked more often as well due to their proximity to Goblin and beastmen tribes.

Oh certainly, remote Empire villages face far more threat than citizens of Nuln.

Actually Fimir fluff is something of a novelty in all this because the writer chose to pick on elves instead of dwarves. Apparently fimir used to regularly destroy elven cities.

[Athlan na Dyr]

You're being selective with your examples. You could easily replace Kaldor Draigo with Sigmar, Nagash, or The Green Knight and your criticisms would still hold true. All are over the top epic characters who are the mightiest of their kind simply because the writers say they are. Sigmar literally kills everything he comes across, even the Everchosen of Chaos and mightiest Necromancer to walk the land. In fact Sigmar fights his way through Nagash's army and his Vampire bodyguard, and still finds time to finish off the big man as well. If Kaldor Draigo is over the top cartoony, then so must be Sigmar. Kaldor Draigo gets flak for taking out a Daemon Primarch, even though a Space Wolf Chapter Master has already done the same thing. We don't know how Draigo defeated Mortarion or the context. Maybe Mortarion was already wounded and draigo just finished the job. The problem with Kaldor Draigo is that his story is just written terribly (as you would expect for Ward), but there is nothing wrong with the concept. The only difference between Sigmar and Draigo is tone.

Arguably the new Vampire Counts book would not be the first instance of Dwarves and Elves acting stupid. War of the Beard?

Right, bear in mind I'm not all that familiar with Sigmar, but he is described as a Godling, yes? He gets his awesome weapon, lays the smackdown on a great champion of chaos and a (severely weakened) Nagash. This is acceptable considering his status as a Godling - he's meant to do something respectable. Similarly an immortal wizard brilliant enough to beat death pumped up on magical crack (warpstone) or a spirit version of the greatest knight of all time (powered by a goddess to boot) should do pretty well.

Draigo has none of this. He's your a-typical Grey Knight who gets sucked into the Warp and is perfectly fine. He quite literally beats chaos around in its own backyard. There is no-one (and let me repeat this) NO-ONE who has had the slightest chance against Chaos at home. Aenarion? 4 GD's and he went down. The Emperor? Still no, he could only try to resist the warp by cutting off its food. C'tan (before rewrite)? No, indeed their one weakness, also tried to cut off food for the Chaos Gods. In the warp, the only thing able to beat Chaos is Chaos. This is how it has been since the start of warhammer (i think) and in two pages Ward utterly trashes this with no better explanation than 'GK FTW'.

I think you may be putting the cart before the horse. There is a market for naked female Elves which fantasy literature often tries to fill and justify with patently absurd background. Khaine only demands that Witch Elves be scantily clad (does he?) because the writers say so. There is no logical truth in the Universe that states it must be that way. Similarly there is no law that states that Daemons of Slaanesh must be female and covered in boobs, but that is exactly what is done because that is what men want to see. That is sensible. What annoys me is how a large part of the fanbase (Fantasy literature in general) try and act as if pointless and random nudity is more high brow and necessary than it really is.

Eh, true. However, of all the ridiculous justification for H.N.E.C. (Hot Naked Elf Chicks), murderous, religious nutjobs is (to my mind) one of the better and more 'logical' (though I use that word with a great deal of trepidation) reasons.

The ability of men to be distracted in battle by the simple presence of cleavage is vastly overstated. The easiest way people have of tricking each other is by simply appearing harmless, and this is also true for Lahmians. How will soldiers defend themselves against someone they don't think is as dangerous as they really are?

The thing is that many wargamers will have never been in battle and are very much distracted by cleavage in real life. This is the concept is accepted for many.

You would get it on with a Daemon sporting multiple (>2) boobs with claws and fangs? Power to you I guess...

Its meant to be arousing, yet in a perverted, over-the-top and repulsive way.

Only for state troops from Ostland.

Opponent: What on earth is that unit next to the bloodletters

Me: Ah those are my demonettes

Opponent: why do they all look like dwarf warriors in gold bra's with beer steins

Me: There not dwarf warriors their dwarf women, its the beards that confuse people.

'cleavage-saves' are superior to the much maligned wardsave.

I don't understand the question

^^Made my day. Cheers boys.

[Verm1s]

Its meant to be arousing, yet in a perverted, over-the-top and repulsive way.

Aah.

Like Jordan.

[blackcherry]

Aah.

Like Jordan.

Shes arousing Perhaps the tendrils of Slannesh have a hold on you already...

[Urgat]

Ah, the joys of obscure foreign references

[BobtheInquisitor]

Aah.

Like Jordan.

Please explain this reference for this unlettered foreign barbarian. Me not get funny.

[Sheena Easton]

Please explain this reference for this unlettered foreign barbarian. Me not get funny.

Jordan aka Katie Price - a vision of understated natural beauty and class.

[Verm1s]

Shes arousing Perhaps the tendrils of Slannesh have a hold on you already...

You're ignoring three important words: meant to be.

[Athlan na Dyr]

Kill it. Kill it with fire.

[Urgat]

After all this time, and upon posting in another topic, I've noticed I haven't shared with the crowd (who undoubtedly can't wait to know ) what is the piece of background that annoys me most. That would be Grimgor.
They managed to go for five editions without the archetypal brawls-for-brains bloodthirsty brute in the OnG book, but hell, when they finally gave in, they went all the way, and some more, fourth base, after touch down kick and all the mumbo-jumbo. If you consider that SoC has never happened, there is no fluff about Grimgor that isn't "he decided to go beat A" or "he was bored with A so he went to beat B". Voila. That's all there is to Grimgor. Thanks to SoC, at least, we had "he failed to beat C, so he beat D instead -D being his own gobs-". Oh my god, the writer responsible for him must have wracked his brains days and nights for weeks. But it doesn't stop there. Grimgor is supposed to be the very embodiment of orcishness. Fine, orcs are brutal, blood-thirsty, etc, I can accept that. Excepted they had to pick a black orc. You know, the only composed, quiet, calculating orcs you'll find. The black orcs. The polar opposites of what Grimgor is. And they put Morglum aside for that :/

[Craze_b0i]

For me the two worst things about Grimgor are as follows. Firstly the line that says if he hasn't fought a battle for 2 days he gets upset and starts killing his own followers. Second is the fact that a lot of the younger OnG players actually like him.

[woodster17]

Orcs suffer from the same character flaws as Beastmen, which is why we get little fluff on particular beast characters and little or no focus from Black Library or elsewhere from Beasts point of view; both races are pretty stupid.

It's kind of hard to build up a view of a multi-faceted evil character when they are simply driven by an insane lust for battle. Skaven, VC, TK, DE, Chaos etc... have varied novels and fluff about their history since their leaders are conniving and clever, albeit truly evil. Although we are often told that when a particularly huge Greenskin or Beast horde goes to war they are led by a 'smarter than normal' warboss since most GW fluff has Orcs given standard 'beat dem humies' comments whenever they are faced with battle. Goblins I'll admit are slightly different which is why there is less complaint about someone like Grom compared to Grimgor. I think with Grimgor GW decided they needed to go off on a tangent when it came to the Orc character. Although they didn't get it 100% right at least the fluff writers tried to break the mold a little with Grimgor.

[Arnizipal]

Although they didn't get it 100% right at least the fluff writers tried to break the mold a little with Grimgor.

They did?
This guys is basically the Hulk: insanely angry and violent all the time (and green as well).
That's all there is to him. How is that breaking the mold?

[Urgat]

Orcs [snip] Although they didn't get it 100% right at least the fluff writers tried to break the mold a little with Grimgor.

You never read any Orcs and Goblins armybooks prior to the 6th ed one, right? Grimgor's fluff is an abortion and a real step back in term of individual orc fluff. I mean, when I think they removed flavorful characters like Gorfang Rotgut and replaced them with "Me smash!" Grimgor, I want to cry. Well that's from 6th ed, it was a good edition, but they removed half the fluff from most AB, it's a miracle they came up with Wuurzag then, really.