The background that annoys you most

[trotsky]

If history is anything to go by, it's far more likely that the Bretonnian nobility is far more inbred as they purposely marry marry relatives in order to keep wealth and power inside the family.

Because Bretonnian peasants are so poor, they at least have the luxury of marrying for love. Which usually does not involve a cousin.

Then again, this is the Warhammer universe...

you should learn some social history Just because the only political marriages we hear about are in the aristocracy (wherever Roman Empire or 17th century Britain) this does not mean it was limited to them. Marriages for wealth, political advantage and social enhancement happen all the way through society especially as, for most of history, the daughter will have almost no say in who she marriages and often the son doesn’t either. Its therefore a tool for the parents of both familys. This is of cause a huge generalisation- i was just making a point.

On topic. The thing that annoyed me most was reading the history of bretonnia and seeing the feifdoms used to be tribes of horsemen. This means bretonnian society evolved in complete contrast to every known real life equivilent. Part of the reason Knights dominated the battlefeild in Europe was because they were the ones that could afford horses (and armour, and weapons and had the leasure time to train). If everyone used horses then this stark devision would never appear and we wouldnt see loads of men-at-arms tramping around and being oppressed.

[Athelassan]

Yeah, Bretonnian history (and much of the implied modern political structure) annoys me. It's lazy, and, as you say, bears little relation to how things actually worked historically. Imperial history is quite a bit better, thanks to years of painstaking work from WFRP - but this is so frequently ignored that it makes me sad. The Sigmar trilogy is a particular villain in this regard, but there are all sorts of things scattered through the novel range and newer background, like the way that none of the provincial ruling families seem to have changed at all in hundreds of years (despite indications otherwise from former background) or ignoring the fact that Middenheim and Middenland have for most of their history been separate entities. In particular, whenever a historical Emperor or whatever is mentioned they seem to have reigned for an unfeasibly long time. Hedrich in the 8th ed rulebook is down as ruling for 50 years (even though there are two other Emperors known to have existed in the same time period). 50 years is an extraordinary length for a monarch's reign, especially in what amounts in context to the Dark Ages, and an elected monarch at that. Again, it's just... lazy.

Making up Dwarf holds just to destroy them does annoy me, although it didn't in the Daemons book, because those were ancient holds it would be reasonable to expect to have been destroyed. What annoys me more is when the casual destruction/razing of an established hold or town is thrown in, though.

There are a lot of niggles, to be honest.

[Craze_b0i]

It's just an exaggerated effect of style. You aren't going to find a single piece of fluff where a guy gets eaten every ten meters, unless that particular piece of fluff is about the Forest of Loren or the Wastes. It's like in Warhammer 40K, there is not only war, those people eat, love, go to work, live their lives and I'm sure certain planets have no seen war for generations. How would you expect anybody to be able to live there, you won't feed a city like Altdorf with peasants that risk their lives just by sleeping in their warp-mutated bed, then have to survive the morning 1 out of 6 chance that their mug of milk is going to rip their face off, try to not get cut in half by the carnivorous door (old oak, it's failed its test a wile ago...), manage to get up the road of bloody teeth and work their ass off all day long in the field of acidic grain (to harvest what, poisonous corn?), etc etc. The whole of humanity would be wiped out in one day So I take it as an hyperbole. Let's be honest, volcanoes swallowing cities, as surprising as it is, are rare in Warhammer, whatever that blurbs say. Can't think of a single occurrence in anything I've read about Warhammer.
But if I had to take that seriously, yeah, no doubt, it'd skyrocket in first place

Well yeah it's a ridiculous piece of background for all the reasons you have listed. Nonetheless this is how the writer chose to depict the world. 40k's 'there is only war' is just a generalized statement, this however is the writer going into specific detail of how daily life is like. The writer evident meant his writing to be taken seriously - which is what makes it so god-awful.

[lord marcus]

All the new additions from 7th and 8th such as the nonsensical "war in the Border Princes", Grom magically popping up in Middenheim to steal the temple roof, Gor's obsessed with defecating on everything, daemons of rival deities playing happy families, the "moonblood" holiday that the Everqueen suddenly has every decade, the abysmal ending of SoC and the even more ridiculous and inconsistent attempts at brushing it under the carpet...

Never heard of this moonblood festival. source?

[Artinam]

Trust me... don't... you will be better without knowing.

[lord marcus]

Nevertheless, please do tell.

[Morkash]

The most annoying piece of fluff for me is that of the Ogres and Sky Giants. Here we have the kinda stupid Ogres, who decide to wipe out an entire species that is considerably larger, stronger and more intelligent, after which they steal the huge cannons created by these giants. No matter how the outnumbered the giants were, they lived in fortresses on mountains, had cannons, and were even physically stronger than Ogres. Nevertheless the Ogres win. How? Shouldn't be possible... We actually even had an argument with a few friends about this, and the final mental picture everyone had was of a horde of fat midgets about the height of our knees pouring in through doors and windows, stabbing us (the "sky giants") to death with small needles... Can you see this happening in any setting? I didn't think so either, but what can you do about it...

I am sceptical of this as well. It is said that the Ogres outnumbered the Sky Titans 100 to 1, but still your point is valid. The Sky Titans are described even larger than the giants of today, I imagine them being more the size of the Bonegrinder Giant. (more than twice the size of the normal giant, who can walk between the Bonegrinder's legs!) The new book describes the Sky Titans living alone in their enormous fortresses, so the Ogres took them out one by one... still it is hard to believe.

[Leogun_91]

Well yeah it's a ridiculous piece of background for all the reasons you have listed. Nonetheless this is how the writer chose to depict the world. 40k's 'there is only war' is just a generalized statement, this however is the writer going into specific detail of how daily life is like. The writer evident meant his writing to be taken seriously - which is what makes it so god-awful.

It was written in WD. It wasn't actual fluff, it was an article about the new terrain rules. It was written by Andy Hall, he was not part in making the rulebook. The article mentions him searching out the designers and talking to them but we don't get actual quotes from them. The part of the article you read are not cannon. It's just an article in WD, nothing more.

[Craze_b0i]

It was written in WD. It wasn't actual fluff, it was an article about the new terrain rules. It was written by Andy Hall, he was not part in making the rulebook. The article mentions him searching out the designers and talking to them but we don't get actual quotes from them. The part of the article you read are not cannon. It's just an article in WD, nothing more.

Actually it wasn't the article about the terrain rules, it was the article about the new background section as written by Phil Kelly.

Whether background fluff written in WD is canon or not I couldn't say. I just found it annoying.

[Leogun_91]

Actually it wasn't the article about the terrain rules, it was the article about the new background section as written by Phil Kelly.

Whether background fluff written in WD is canon or not I couldn't say. I just found it annoying.

It was indeed a poor article. But I see it just as that, a poor article best ignored. Most people won't remember it and it's not mentioned in the book itself.

[Righthandedtwin]

The most annoying piece of fluff for me is that of the Ogres and Sky Giants. Here we have the kinda stupid Ogres, who decide to wipe out an entire species that is considerably larger, stronger and more intelligent, after which they steal the huge cannons created by these giants. No matter how the outnumbered the giants were, they lived in fortresses on mountains, had cannons, and were even physically stronger than Ogres. Nevertheless the Ogres win. How? Shouldn't be possible... We actually even had an argument with a few friends about this, and the final mental picture everyone had was of a horde of fat midgets about the height of our knees pouring in through doors and windows, stabbing us (the "sky giants") to death with small needles... Can you see this happening in any setting? I didn't think so either, but what can you do about it...

Don't forget that the Sky-titans are a race "last seen" in C -1700 on the Imperial Caldenar which is roughly 1700 years before the birth of Sigmar (I can't remeber if C 0 was the birth of sigmar or the date sigmar "officially" founded the empire) so amongst the obvious that the stories are highly exxagerated if we are to believe the Armies Book is written from the Ogre perspective and transcribed into Reikspeil by Imperial Scholars. It would naturally stand that thier legends are exagerated and the "Last" sky-titan perished so long ago no one can deny or varify thier existance especially when thier only remains are these mystical cannons the Ogres have and some ruins out in the giant lands...of course there is the other obvious answer here that the Ogres were in a more numerous and concentrated force in those days, Fire Ants have been known to kill animals as large as german shepards by sheer numbers alone why can't Ogres do the same? It does mention the Ogres were more numerous, driven by thier all consuming hunger and were in a more cohesive structure when the Titan wars broke out.

6/7 ed ogre book. Ogres are fat. Fatty fat fat. Lookit them there, wobbling their big fat man-boobs all over the place. Tell them to quit their butter-smuggling job but they're too frickin' thick to know what smuggling is, let alone get the joke. A wonder they don't stand around drooling when they're not eating, eating, eating. They're infamous mercenaries who can be hired by any other race while at the same time their only reaction to any other race is 'cor, I'll hit that on the head and eat it'.

I don't know what the new book is like. At least they don't look like they've been fished out from the bottom of a lake after a week, any more.

Do you realise that the Ogres were a foot note in the past? Historically like the Trolls they were for a long time just a random creature inhabiting the wild places of the world before the Troll Country concept was added. Ogres were mentioned often as being "House Ogres" a virtual slave race, weakened and diminished by servitude...they are what happens when the MoM Ogre is consumed by it's hunger...they regress and become feeble. It isn't some sort of joke, it's a very interesting and unique concept that's clearly been well thought out and neatly presented in the 6th/7th/8th ed stuff. The Hungry God aspect of thier race is especially interesting...get the new AB or borrow it from a friend or something it's worth a read and will change your perception of them I am sure.

I am sceptical of this as well. It is said that the Ogres outnumbered the Sky Titans 100 to 1, but still your point is valid. The Sky Titans are described even larger than the giants of today, I imagine them being more the size of the Bonegrinder Giant. (more than twice the size of the normal giant, who can walk between the Bonegrinder's legs!) The new book describes the Sky Titans living alone in their enormous fortresses, so the Ogres took them out one by one... still it is hard to believe.

Sky Titans were massive...but if one Tyrant can clobber a Giant into servitude...I imagine a thousand Tyrants and thier tribesmen can easily clobber a Titan

[Scammel]

the final mental picture everyone had was of a horde of fat midgets about the height of our knees pouring in through doors and windows, stabbing us (the "sky giants") to death with small needles

Except it wouldn't be you and your mates, it would be you, then move on to your first mate's house, then the next - the Sky-Titans were solitary even amongst themselves. And the midgets would be insane with unnatural hunger.

[Leogun_91]

(I can't remeber if C 0 was the birth of sigmar or the date sigmar "officially" founded the empire)

Date he was officially crowned emperor by the Ar-Ulric.

[Verm1s]

Do you realise that the Ogres were a foot note in the past?
It isn't some sort of joke, it's a very interesting and unique concept that's clearly been well thought out... The Hungry God aspect of thier race is especially interesting...

I think the Great Maw is an interesting addition too. I've also seen some or most of the old norse ogre fluff, and I realise that without a full army to support, it's a little sparse. But in my view the remade mongol ogre fluff and culture isn't a whole lot more deep and rich, rather than stretched out to fill an army book. I don't think you'll easily convince me that 'kill and eat, kill and eat, be fat' and 'errr, ogres are too thick for culture, they just nick it from other races' are 'clearly well thought out'.

6/7 ed ogres were like giant grey greenskins. That's no reflection on greenskins - I just would've liked things more if the mongol ogres didn't try to horn in on their act, replacing love of fightin' with love of eatin' (after a spot of fightin').

[Righthandedtwin]

I think the Great Maw is an interesting addition too. I've also seen some or most of the old norse ogre fluff, and I realise that without a full army to support, it's a little sparse. But in my view the remade mongol ogre fluff and culture isn't a whole lot more deep and rich, rather than stretched out to fill an army book. I don't think you'll easily convince me that 'kill and eat, kill and eat, be fat' and 'errr, ogres are too thick for culture, they just nick it from other races' are 'clearly well thought out'.

6/7 ed ogres were like giant grey greenskins. That's no reflection on greenskins - I just would've liked things more if the mongol ogres didn't try to horn in on their act, replacing love of fightin' with love of eatin' (after a spot of fightin').

I can see the greyskin...living in mountains where there is low sun exposure promoting a lack of pigmentation, though due to being down in the more verdant valleys now thier skin is healthier...and the other side of course was to avoid looking like giant humans.

An interesting note in the Nagash series is that the Great Maw may infact also be a Nehekharan God (I believe it was either the faceless one or Geheb) who is described as a desert deity that is eternally hungry for the blood of sacrifices (or something like that) which really has helped anchor the OK lore as a whole...though I think we're straying too far into the positive for this thread ^_^

[lord marcus]

Moonblood anyone? trying to find source

[The bearded one]

Grom magically popping up in Middenheim to steal the temple roof,

where's the rest of the path of his Waagh! that took him across the world's edge mountains and the entire empire? He didn't just appear there by magic.

[Leogun_91]

Moonblood anyone? trying to find source

It is in the BRB in a sidenote where it is told that once a decade the Everqueen travels with an army through Ind and keeps Morrsleib at bay using moonblood.

[The bearded one]

And moonblood is an old way of.. saying.... time of the month.... aargh, I can't say it!

[Drasanil]

Period, there

Chaos, all of it, I'm getting sick of it, their impossibly large numbers, their immunity to logistics, the fact they seemingly respawn at base when killed where as every one else is ravaged, the fact that after 2500 years the empire has never bothered to deforest large swathes of land that let beastmen do as they please, every second bad thing that ever happens is somehow chaos' faults. It's gotten to the point I consider it more of a cancer on the setting than anything else, the setting would be a lot better off if chaos was scaled back fluff wise and the other races/factions actually given room to develop.

Another that's been getting on my nerves is the trend in newer pieces of fluff (this started with DoC being super-happy-fun-time friends) to just randomly throw in any unit or model in stories with no rhyme or reason... uhm smell the product placement.