Warriors of Chaos rumours

[Son of Sanguinius]

Yes, there are a number of very good reasons in fact.

a) They have always been a core part of the Chaos army

b) Warriors are not the elite infantry, chosen are. Much like Saurus and Temple Guard in the case of Lizardmen.

c) WoC as an army do not have the variety of toys that those other armies have - they are all about the infantry.

d) Warriors are far from the best infantry in the game, point-for-point

... etc.

a) So? It doesn't matter if they've always been that way. The paradigm is different.
b) Warriors of chaos are elite infantry. Profiles and equipment dictate this. It's not my opinion.
c) toys? I think with marks, gifts, eotg, three types of elite infantry, and three magic lores, they are very unique
d) I will concede that this is mostly a matter of opinion, but it doesn't change their status as elite infantry.

Would you like some cheese with your whine. Seriously, warriors have been core since I started playing in 1994 and they have always been both elite and core. That is the WoC schtick after all. If you make them special or decrease the stat line, you might as well not bother with WoC anymore and change it to Marauders of Chaos. Just be thankful that knights aren't core anymore like when I started.

Unnecessary to be snide.

I very much would like to field warriors as core but the fact is "it's always been that way" is notan argument with any weight.

[Gradek]

I very much would like to field warriors as core but the fact is "it's always been that way" is notan argument with any weight.

But it is a good argument when one looks at the other special choices. GW are in the business to sell minis and moving warriors to special will sell less minis, not more. Who exactly is going to buy special warrior minis, when we already have knights, trolls, DO's, Ogres, and chariots as special (I am assuming you would advocate chosen to rare, which is also ludicrous since the only thing that makes them good is FoTG and an absurdly expensive combo with the Wailing Banner and 2 warshrines).

If I were a betting man, I would say warriors not only remain core, but actually come down in cost a point or 2 with no stat line changes, but that FoTG either gets removed or nerfed (ie no re-rolling when you can have a viable result).

[iamjack42]

I very much would like to field warriors as core but the fact is "it's always been that way" is notan argument with any weight.

I agree. I support dwarfs with M8 and Elves with T5. Just because they didn't used to be that way is not an argument with any weight.

Furthermore, I think we need to take Knights out of Brettonian core. Their profile and equipment dictate that they are elite. 35% Men at Arms and Bowmen!

[TheOneHawk]

Ogre's are pretty elite, I think all they should get are gnoblars for core.

[Son of Sanguinius]

But it is a good argument when one looks at the other special choices. GW are in the business to sell minis and moving warriors to special will sell less minis, not more. Who exactly is going to buy special warrior minis, when we already have knights, trolls, DO's, Ogres, and chariots as special (I am assuming you would advocate chosen to rare, which is also ludicrous since the only thing that makes them good is FoTG and an absurdly expensive combo with the Wailing Banner and 2 warshrines).

If I were a betting man, I would say warriors not only remain core, but actually come down in cost a point or 2 with no stat line changes, but that FoTG either gets removed or nerfed (ie no re-rolling when you can have a viable result).

I agree that they will likely stay as core. But chosen being mediocre or bad is an entirely different issue, as are the other special choices. We should not begrudge a situation of many suitable options for special choices.

I agree. I support dwarfs with M8 and Elves with T5. Just because they didn't used to be that way is not an argument with any weight.

Furthermore, I think we need to take Knights out of Brettonian core. Their profile and equipment dictate that they are elite. 35% Men at Arms and Bowmen!

What is with these frivolous comments? I'm trying to discuss WoC rumors here, not marvel at how witty you think you are.

[TheOneHawk]

The fact is that an army called Warriors of Chaos will have a troop of similar name (Chaos Warriors) as a core unit. Just like how Ogres have Ogres as core, and Orcs and Goblins have Orcs, and Goblins. The fact that Chaos Warriors are elite is not going to change. Neither is their core status. Elite or not, it's what set's the army apart from others. Do you really want WoC to be empire without cannons and less choices for their ****** hordes?

[Son of Sanguinius]

The empire doesn't require cannons to be core and is a prime example of how the name means nothing in regards to your point, as are tomb kings and vampire counts.

[Dominatrix]

Not trying to offend or anything but I hope you are not trolling or being intentionally obtuse. Warriors of chaos have been since forever an elite army. Elite. That means an army of small numbers but superior stats. They are not a horde army so comparisons with orcs, undead don't really make sense. Neither can they go gunline style like the empire. An army with little to no shooting has to either have very good stats to survive getting to close combat, or be numerous enough to not care about losses. Warriors of chaos are the former. Whatever your opinion is this is the idea behind the army. They are close combat specialists.

[Deaf Paradox]

Well since everyone is blicking about Warriors, the old models are in need of a re-sculpt since conversion wise they are terrible. Hopefully their be redone like the knights, same goes for the marauders (which aren't as bad).

[logan054]

I agree with the sentiment, but you could justify the same idea for any army. A paranoid Elector Count who trains vast amounts of Greatswords. A venerable Slann Mage-Priest with a vast Temple Guard force. A Black Orc Warboss who doesn't trust pale greenskins. No one else gets to have their elite infantry as Core and there is no justification for why Warriors of Chaos should get to alone. Especially when they are one of the game's finest elite infantry.

Jesus, don't you think they have screwed over the chaos players enough, they already took daemons and beasts out of the army, now you want to move chaos warriors to special? because its fair? why is fair that elves are M5? humans don't have it, why is it fair dwarfs have M3, humans don't have it, why is is fair orcs can take big uns as core? maybe space marines are to good to be troops, perhaps scouts should be the only troop choice, few other armies have troops choices with stats like that, how can that be (I'm a marine player btw) It all sounds abit silly doesn't it, fact is chaos warriors don't need justification, its a warriors of chaos army and not a Marauders of chaos army! like I said, I don't want a army of empire swordsman on big bases, I want a army of chaos warriors as was sold to me through repeated army books.

Well since everyone is blicking about Warriors, the old models are in need of a re-sculpt since conversion wise they are terrible. Hopefully their be redone like the knights, same goes for the marauders (which aren't as bad).

The chaos warriors are fine for conversion, you make some pretty damn cool chaos warriors with great weapons using the chaos knight weapons and heads, I happen to love the chaos warrior models, I would hate them to look like the current chaos knights, the only parts I like about them is the weapons, heads and horses.

[Son of Sanguinius]

I am neither trolling nor being obtuse, and thank you for attempting at civility. I am debating the point that chaos warriors should be a special choice, and in doing so I am trying to point out what I see as argument flaws by using contradicting evidence or by proposing that familiarity isn't philosophical justification. I don't see how this warrants being treated as a contrarion, outside of frustrated reactions to someone who doesn't agree with you.

Now, to your point about them being cc specialists, I totally agree. But how does this identity suffer with a move to special? Moreover, orcs find cc just as important and do not have black orcs as core. I'm not suggesting WoC be mirrors of the orcs, but with all the background on immense invasions every few hundred years, there is, at the very least, the suggestion that marauders are the core of the army. No pun intended.

[Rosstifer]

Just as an issue of cost, do you realise how many Marauders people would have to buy to fill up core? You'd need over a hundred kitted Marauders to reach the 600pts in a 2400pt game. Two units of 18 Chaos Warriors fills up the same amount of Core. Marauders are 20 quid a pop in the UK, the cheapest place to buy GW. You'd need 8 boxes or so. That's 160GBP, assuming you want to use the old models and not conversions, which would be even more restrictive. 160GBP for just the core could stop a lot of people from even being able to play the army.

[lbecks]

Well since everyone is blicking about Warriors, the old models are in need of a re-sculpt since conversion wise they are terrible. Hopefully their be redone like the knights, same goes for the marauders (which aren't as bad).

Avatars of War is releasing Chaos Warriors which are pretty nice and have various options.

[Morkash]

Chaos Warriors will stay Core with almost 100% certainty. There is no reason whatsoever from GW's point of view to move them to Special. And while you present your opinion quite well, Son of Sanguinius, it remains your opinion and not something which has to change because of their apparent superior stats or something else. You are not neutral on this matter, and neither am I or many others here.
When you read the Designer's Notes for the current AB you will see that Phil Kelly gave the Chaos Warriors Chaos Armour intentionally to allow players to take a whole army clad in hellforged Armour, which would be small but very elitary. I think we will see mostly point adjustments in the Core section, Marauders one point up, CW one point down. Something along these lines, I do not see any major changes to be honest.

What would interest me are GW's plans with the Chosen and Eye of the Gods in general. Right now the latter is usually only used when abused by the former. Which is a shame, because it is a very characterful rule! For the Chosen, I do not know what could change...maybe more god-specific options to underline their status as, well, Chosen?

[Deaf Paradox]

The chaos warriors are fine for conversion, you make some pretty damn cool chaos warriors with great weapons using the chaos knight weapons and heads, I happen to love the chaos warrior models, I would hate them to look like the current chaos knights, the only parts I like about them is the weapons, heads and horses.

I just wish that the model had more poses than the one trick pony it is, having the model so the legs and torso were seperate with the ability to add the cloak on would make the Chao Warriors kit so much more versatile and interesting.

Avatars of War is releasing Chaos Warriors which are pretty nice and have various options.

I have seen a picture of them somewhere in wip and they look amazing, hopefully this will edge GWS to do something dynamic of their own.

[blackstork]

I have a few ideas what change would be in Warriors of Chaos:
Hero who will be Marauder, not Exalted - he will be cheaper and enough against many armies
Chaos Knights - champion with magic item up to 25 points, as it's in other heavy cavalry
Spawn special, Chosen rare and 0-1 (fluff)

[Odin]

c) toys? I think with marks, gifts, eotg, three types of elite infantry, and three magic lores, they are very unique

I think you missed the point. Uniqueness is not the issue. The issue is that WoC do not have a huge variety of support for their elite infantry. If they had access to handgunners, cheap mortars and steam tanks then yes, Warriors as core might be overpowered. If they had Slann Mage Priests, Terradons and Skinks, likewise. But they don't - they pretty much just have combat infantry, combat cavalry, combat monstrous infantry and combat monsters (yes, there is also the hellcannon). The weakness of flexibility is offset against the benefit of elite infantry in Core.

I would be very surprised if basic warriors don't come down a point or two. If they are no longer core I will eat my hat. And then sell my WoC army.

[Dominatrix]

Just as an issue of cost, do you realise how many Marauders people would have to buy to fill up core? You'd need over a hundred kitted Marauders to reach the 600pts in a 2400pt game. Two units of 18 Chaos Warriors fills up the same amount of Core. Marauders are 20 quid a pop in the UK, the cheapest place to buy GW. You'd need 8 boxes or so. That's 160GBP, assuming you want to use the old models and not conversions, which would be even more restrictive. 160GBP for just the core could stop a lot of people from even being able to play the army.

Shhhhh if anyone at GW reads this Chaos Warriors will move to special for sure! Anyway back to discussing the rumours, what worries me is that nothing has been heard about a new chariot model. Please don't tell me it will stay as is. A thought occured to me that maybe there will be a chariot / warshrine dual kit, but then again if the warshrine model has god specific bits to personalize it a bit then I don't know how everything can fit in one box.

[logan054]

I just wish that the model had more poses than the one trick pony it is, having the model so the legs and torso were seperate with the ability to add the cloak on would make the Chao Warriors kit so much more versatile and interesting.

Its funny because all these multi part models still end up being in pretty much the same pose so they all rank up!

[sninsch]

I think you missed the point. Uniqueness is not the issue. The issue is that WoC do not have a huge variety of support for their elite infantry. If they had access to handgunners, cheap mortars and steam tanks then yes, Warriors as core might be overpowered. If they had Slann Mage Priests, Terradons and Skinks, likewise. But they don't - they pretty much just have combat infantry, combat cavalry, combat monstrous infantry and combat monsters (yes, there is also the hellcannon). The weakness of flexibility is offset against the benefit of elite infantry in Core.

I would be very surprised if basic warriors don't come down a point or two. If they are no longer core I will eat my hat. And then sell my WoC army.

cheaper warriors.. I hope not!
How about going back to one attack per warrior and lower the points. So chosen have 2 attacks and differ more?

In the fluff most of the chaos forces are marauders and beastman with a few chaos warriors, so it's fuffy that they become special.But I also don't think that will happen.