LOTR new releases

[Whitwort Stormbringer]

if they'd wanted to expand into something completely new they should have made a completely clean break with the existing stuff, not simply make a smaller version of something that is well attested in Tolkiens works

The problem being that in the past when GW have invented something new altogether people complain that it doesn't "fit in." Gulavar is a perfect example - he bears no resemblance to anything in the movies, is clearly not inspired by/ripped off from existing designs, and he's just ridiculous and out of place. Same deal with the original Swan Knight designs. At least this guy is grounded in the PJ/WETA version of Middle Earth, so he fits in with the rest of the miniature line.

[Spiney Norman]

The problem being that in the past when GW have invented something new altogether people complain that it doesn't "fit in." Gulavar is a perfect example - he bears no resemblance to anything in the movies, is clearly not inspired by/ripped off from existing designs, and he's just ridiculous and out of place. Same deal with the original Swan Knight designs. At least this guy is grounded in the PJ/WETA version of Middle Earth, so he fits in with the rest of the miniature line.

I think he fits well with the wfb daemons of chaos line, less well with the lotr line

[Peregrin]

I think he fits well with the wfb daemons of chaos line, less well with the lotr line

I can kind of see that. I think your point would be more obvious if he were painted like the WFB figs.

[75hastings69]

"Mediocre models at a ridiculous price" - that ought to be GWs new slogan for their LotR range. The only one I kind of like is the watcher in the water, but at that price AND in FINECRAP i'd rather not bother!

I'm going to be watching closely how sales for LotR go now that they all seem to be finecrap, as a lot of hobbyists won't buy it at all now.

[Skaven13]

"Mediocre models at a ridiculous price" - that ought to be GWs new slogan for their LotR range. The only one I kind of like is the watcher in the water, but at that price AND in FINECRAP i'd rather not bother!

I'm going to be watching closely how sales for LotR go now that they all seem to be finecrap, as a lot of hobbyists won't buy it at all now.

I think the only thing I like out of all of these releases are the plastic Kataphrakts, and maybe the addition of a mounted Amdur. The Great Beast thingie was kinda cool as an additional option for orcs, but honestly, I was kinda underwhelmed by the model itself. The Watcher is cool, but how much? And really, how often am I going to use that thing in games?

Count me as one of the lot of hobbyists that won't buy it at all now. It gets pretty bad when your initial reaction to the prices is laughter at the absurdity of it all, followed by wonder how in the world these things sell in the first place.

[Zogash]

Count me as one of the lot of hobbyists that won't buy it at all now. It gets pretty bad when your initial reaction to the prices is laughter at the absurdity of it all, followed by wonder how in the world these things sell in the first place.

Sadly, this pretty much sums up my own feelings about LotR. I hate Finecast with a passion (crappy quality at a premium price -> no go) and won't buy anything made of it. This is why I'm stocking up on the metals they still have, especially Rohan heroes (will get my Erkenbrand tomorrow). They may be overpriced, too, but at least I can be sure I won't have to spend time and money to clean up miscasts.

As for the GW-invented stuff: I'm fine with the fact that they created named heroes for the Evil factions, heck, I'm even more or less ok with what they did to the Watcher (even though I think it looks utterly retarded :P). What annoys the hell out of me, however, is that they keep coming up with completely unneeded stuff for factions that don't really need the attention (Dweller for Moria) while there are tons of other things they could rather be doing for armies that really do need a buff (or two) - especially Rohan and High Elves/Numenoreans. And they wouldn't even have to come up with anything unheard-of - there are loads of well-established Rohan characters that could be used to boost the army with special rules (Elfhelm, Deorwine, Dunhere, Guthlaf, etc.) and I'd be the first to buy several boxes of plastic lance-armed cavalry (which they should have had from the beginning!). Same goes for more model variety for Last Alliance armies - Sword&Board Elves, HE-/Numenorean Cavalry, Círdan (LA-Version), Anarion, the sons of Isildur, etc. All of those would be more needed and more approriate than that stupid Dweller demon! /rant

[Skaven13]

Sadly, this pretty much sums up my own feelings about LotR. I hate Finecast with a passion (crappy quality at a premium price -> no go) and won't buy anything made of it. This is why I'm stocking up on the metals they still have, especially Rohan heroes (will get my Erkenbrand tomorrow). They may be overpriced, too, but at least I can be sure I won't have to spend time and money to clean up miscasts.

As for the GW-invented stuff: I'm fine with the fact that they created named heroes for the Evil factions, heck, I'm even more or less ok with what they did to the Watcher (even though I think it looks utterly retarded :P). What annoys the hell out of me, however, is that they keep coming up with completely unneeded stuff for factions that don't really need the attention (Dweller for Moria) while there are tons of other things they could rather be doing for armies that really do need a buff (or two) - especially Rohan and High Elves/Numenoreans. And they wouldn't even have to come up with anything unheard-of - there are loads of well-established Rohan characters that could be used to boost the army with special rules (Elfhelm, Deorwine, Dunhere, Guthlaf, etc.) and I'd be the first to buy several boxes of plastic lance-armed cavalry (which they should have had from the beginning!). Same goes for more model variety for Last Alliance armies - Sword&Board Elves, HE-/Numenorean Cavalry, Círdan (LA-Version), Anarion, the sons of Isildur, etc. All of those would be more needed and more approriate than that stupid Dweller demon! /rant

I will sum up my own feelings by saying that what you said about summing up your feelings concerning what I said sums up my feelings as well (did that come out right?). I have to agree with the whole new model vs units that need buffering thing. How about all of those units in the (now defunct) Legions of Middle Earth book? Where are my Elven Chariots? How about my Elven Bolt Throwers? How about a Black Hearted Tree? I guess I could use an Ent for that one, but it was an example. How about those Werewolves? As for War of the Ring, how about that Storm Giant? I would have been jumping for joy for any of these. Well, unless they were Finecash....

[Whitwort Stormbringer]

While I'll defend the Dweller on aesthetic grounds, I definitely agree that I'd much rather see units taken straight from Tolkien to GW-inventions.

Rohan has a pretty good variety of heroes, but could use more troop options and would really benefit a lot from another plastic set (plastic royal guard would be my choice). 2nd Age Elves and Numenoreans are also very limited, as are Arnor and pretty much all the Fallen Realms other than Harad. Fleshing out these forces with new troop types and heroes would be a priority for me.

[Zogash]

While I'll defend the Dweller on aesthetic grounds, I definitely agree that I'd much rather see units taken straight from Tolkien to GW-inventions.

Rohan has a pretty good variety of heroes, but could use more troop options and would really benefit a lot from another plastic set (plastic royal guard would be my choice). 2nd Age Elves and Numenoreans are also very limited, as are Arnor and pretty much all the Fallen Realms other than Harad. Fleshing out these forces with new troop types and heroes would be a priority for me.

I think the Fallen Realms are quite well-provided. Isengard could use some plastic Dunlendings, but overall it is very well playable as it is. Harad, as you said, has great variety, and with the new releases I think Rhûn is pretty much done, too. This leaves Khand and Far-Harad. Yes, they both could use the attention (and plastics!), but they are fringe armies in the background, while Rohan is one of the central factions in the narrative. The game doesn't do that justice.

Also, to my mind, Rohan should be playable (and competitive) as an all-mounted force, it's what they do! As it is now, their horses get shot way too easily and you're left with very expensive WoR. I'm not sure what I'd change to make it work, but maybe working with minor heroes (like the Rangers of the North or the Outriders) that give some sort of bubble might work. Ah well, I'm drifting off-topic...
Maybe I'll be able to take a look at the books tomorrow when my local GW gets the delivery. We'll see what happens... *mustn't get hopes up... must... stay... realistic...* >.<

[Whitwort Stormbringer]

with the new releases I think Rhûn is pretty much done, too. This leaves Khand and Far-Harad. Yes, they both could use the attention (and plastics!), but they are fringe armies in the background

That's definitely true, Khand and far Harad especially really are fringe "armies" and more allied forces to Harad or Rhun than anything else.

I think it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy/chicken-egg scenario though - there's a perception that people aren't as interested in those armies, so GW doesn't make the models, meaning those armies lack variety, meaning they're less appealing to players. Take Harad as an example - they don't get that much more representation in the films than Easterlings do, but GW has made them a fairly varied army so they're popular (the mumak certainly doesn't hurt). In contrast, Rhun has 1 infantry type, 1 cavalry type, 3 unnamed hero types and 1 named hero (not sure I counted that right...). Getting plastics helped them become quite a bit more popular, and I would guess you'd see the same for armies like Dunland (as a pure/mostly Dunland force rather than just Isengard allies) and Khand.

That's kind of always the way it's been with LotR - an army really doesn't see much time on the table until they have plastics. How many Arnor armies do you see? How many orc armies did you see before the RotK set came out, for that matter?

Now I totally agree that Rohan could be brought up to speed - more competitive cavalry and characters with more interesting special rules would be a good place to start. Hopefully Riders of Rohan will get a bit of a boost and the King's Huntsman will provide some interesting flavor to Rohan ground forces.

[The Marshel]

I think the Fallen Realms are quite well-provided.
snip

the fallen realms as a whole are very well provided, but there are many opportunities for expansion within some factions.

harad is very well fleshed out, and Isengard doesn't need anything more really (as a faction that existed for about 2 years they've very well fleshed out indeed)

Rhun could do with reinforcements though. Add a named captain, some sort of elite infantry of the hard hitting variety, an artillery option (I've seen a great eastlering ballista based on the mordor one) etc. another good move to make would be plastic Khandish warriors and riders, as they'd then be able to act as the light infantry and cavalry support for easterlings without breaking the bank

[Zogash]

Now I totally agree that Rohan could be brought up to speed - more competitive cavalry and characters with more interesting special rules would be a good place to start. Hopefully Riders of Rohan will get a bit of a boost and the King's Huntsman will provide some interesting flavor to Rohan ground forces.

Sooo, I just had a look through the books at my local GW, and I can say I have not been this disappointed in a looong time (even by GW's standards)! Rohan stays pretty much the same, the only significant addition is the already mentioned Erkenbrand buff, but RoR stay exactly the same - no lances, no option to drop the bow, and mediocre stats - the cost remains the same. Erkenbrand's Horn changes from counting as an army-wide standard for one turn to a normal horn that gives +2 C instead of +1. Normal Éomer stays exactly the same, Pelennor-Éomer loses his Rage-rule and is S5 on the charge. The King's Hunter has a shoot value of 3+, carries an Elven bow, and only fails in-the-way-rolls on a roll of 1 (instead of 1-3). He costs 25 Skaven slaves and otherwise has a basic human captain profile, only that he has only 1 attack. Overall nothing significant enough to make a Rohan army much more competitive - especially an all-mounted Rohan army is still pretty much impossible. I raged quite a bit... Also, I haven't noticed any new units that don't have models yet, certainly not for Rohan and neither for 2nd Age Elves - so no High Elven variety any time soon. -.-

To make matters worse, some of the things they did change, make you wanna punch somebody... for instance, the already overpowered (for its price) Dwarven King's Champion got its cost reduced by another 10 points while staying exactly the same rules-wise. This really does make me question the sanity of some people in Nottingham... I rage-quit after all this and didn't take a look at the other three books because I felt I had to cool down a bit. I'll take my armies (Rohan and Last Alliance... who'd have guessed... :P) there tomorrow and see how it goes, but on first glance, the books are a severe disappointment.

[decker_cky]

Sooo, I just had a look through the books at my local GW, and I can say I have not been this disappointed in a looong time (even by GW's standards)! Rohan stays pretty much the same, the only significant addition is the already mentioned Erkenbrand buff, but RoR stay exactly the same - no lances, no option to drop the bow, and mediocre stats - the cost remains the same. Erkenbrand's Horn changes from counting as an army-wide standard for one turn to a normal horn that gives +2 C instead of +1. Normal Éomer stays exactly the same, Pelennor-Éomer loses his Rage-rule and is S5 on the charge. The King's Hunter has a shoot value of 3+, carries an Elven bow, and only fails in-the-way-rolls on a roll of 1 (instead of 1-3). He costs 25 Skaven slaves and otherwise has a basic human captain profile, only that he has only 1 attack. Overall nothing significant enough to make a Rohan army much more competitive - especially an all-mounted Rohan army is still pretty much impossible. I raged quite a bit... Also, I haven't noticed any new units that don't have models yet, certainly not for Rohan and neither for 2nd Age Elves - so no High Elven variety any time soon. -.-

Did they give a different ratio for shooting models in a Rohan warband?

[Peregrin]

I think I'll look for another thread to voice my opinion of the Rohan problem. Probably end up a bit off topic here.

[Frobozz of the Nine]

I appreciate some of the new models that have been released, but are these really necessary? The Gorgoroth Beast is pretty nice but not at that price point and the new sourcebooks look like rehashed material from earlier SBG book releases. I can't imagine there is that much new material worth the price of these new books. Quite frankly, I'm very hesitant to buy any Finecast models as about 2/3 of the WHF ones I've bought have had minor (or worse) casting problems.

As much as I love the Lotr SBG rules set, I'm not inclined to spend much more money on the game until they start replacing some of the really lame core plastic models that were released with the game around the time the films were out. A descent Mordor Orc plastic kit would go a long way towards appeasing me, I really can't stand the currently available plastics and the OOP metal models are nearly impossible to find. Does anyone know of alternate company models that would work for Mordor Orcs? I'd also love to see plastic Black Numenorean's on foot to replace the 3 pose metal ones and a revised Rohan/Gondor plastic set for foot troops would be great. The current ones are pretty lacking IMO.

Come on GW, give us some descent quality stuff if you want to keep WotR and/or SBG alive!!!

[reds8n]

New video up, just an intro really

nice to See Mr. Troke developing game stuff again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9r5E...re=uploademail

[TimLeeson]

I'm not a LOTR player - but I gave these models a look-in anyway.

I really like the watcher, it would fit well with my cthulhu-wars games, except the price and it being finecast put me off sadly.

The plastic cavalry are nice, are all LOTR plastics like that? they have less parts than WHF/40k kits - I like that though.

[decker_cky]

The plastic cavalry are nice, are all LOTR plastics like that? they have less parts than WHF/40k kits - I like that though.

Yup. Most infantry are 2 parts, and cavalry are also comparably 'simple.' Makes for easier to get together models, though at the expense of details.

[Orphic]

Yup. Most infantry are 2 parts, and cavalry are also comparably 'simple.' Makes for easier to get together models, though at the expense of details.

I wouldn't say details so much as posing options

[C-Coen]

The plastic cavalry are nice, are all LOTR plastics like that? they have less parts than WHF/40k kits - I like that though.

Ha, these cavalry have perhaps the most parts of any LotR release so far! Infantry is usally 1-piece, sometimes a seperate hand but no real poseable models or extra parts, besides the latest cavalry kits also no command included in any kit.
I do hope new kits will all be like the Katahprakts actually, command bits are always nice and perhaps later kits may actually include weapon options - something normal in Warhammer but strangely absent from LotR (because of which LotR used to be a lot cheaper than WH though, I could get nearly 48 LotR infantry for the price of 16 Lizardmen Saurus back in the day).