The Navy and the Warmachine that is the Imperial Guard

[Gen.Steiner]

yes, that was actually a big help for determining the (realistic) numbers needed for this crusade. Actually I even saved the information as a word document on my computer in case the thread was lost, just so I'd be able to reference it again and again

Oh, brilliant - would you be able to e-mail me the word doc? I managed to lose mine...! Also, after I posted, I thought "I'm sure Aun'aart'al was active in my Amalthea threads...". Sorry to be so dense! )

as one of these "other examples," would I be correct in my assumption that universe-class mass conveyors are still capable of moving/feeding 500k troops at a time? or have those ships been removed from official canon

To be honest, I'm not sure. I would have thought that something like that would have to exist, but it would be extremely well defended and protected; they would be the heart of the Crusade and each one would be a precious commodity. A bit like Atlantic Conveyor in the Falklands (and how much of a disaster it was when it was hit with the Welsh Guards on board). Frankly, it's your Crusade; if you want Universe-class conveyors, have them. It'll simplify (sort of) your logistics and transport chain.

yes, the general staff I have as of typing this are;

1 Warmaster
6 lord militants
2 marshals
6 generals
1 lord admiral
3 admirals
2 inquisitors (2 ordos)
1 space marine captain

I then of course have the advisors;

Administratum
Templars Psykologis
Logis Strategos
Department Munitorum
Ecclesiarchy
Communications
Tithes
Commissariat
Security

but it would seem I am currently lacking a Master Navigator, and the Astropath I have to simply give him the rank of "Master" (but that's no real problem)

These all sound good to me. Lord MILITANT, yes, that's the rank I was looking for (not High Marshal). Thanks. I believe the top ranking Astropath would be something like High Master or Astropath-Lord.

I actually have these books but didn't see any of these in there, it seems that I simply missed the relevant information. I'll have to have another, more careful look

I am sure they're there. In the Taros campaign there's a two page spread describing the beginning of the Crusade and it goes into some detail about all the various people the Lord General had to butter up to get involved; and how the Administratum went about organising it. In there they reference the Ad Mech rep, the Administratum officials, the Raptors Marine officers, the Navy, and so on and so forth. Fairly early on. I think just before or just after the spread with planetary information on the left-hand page. In the Vraks one there is, similarly, a great deal of info early on about who was involved with organising and planning the campaign, down to who worked out how many Guardsmen will die, and therefore how many coffins etc were needed.

yes, I figured adding in a marine captain to the general staff would just be a no-brainer. I'll need to add in an arbites rep, but someone from a diplomatic corps? the Imperium doesn't strike me as being very diplomatic, unless you mean negotiating from the barrel of a gun.

I forget the correct name. They appear in at least one piece of background material - the original Tau Codex, alongside a (very angry) Imperial Fist Captain. Rogue Trader fleet reps would also be present, although not in a command position, more in a "we would appreciate it if we could move into this sector here to a) exploit trading opportunities and b) assist you in destroying pirates" manner.

I can add in someone from the Sororitas, and the Titan legions can be represented from an Ad Mech rep. I unfortunately do not have a copy of the Tactica Imperialis, however The Sabbat Worlds Crusade doesn't have as much juicy information as you'd think

Tactica Imperialis is wonderful. I was absolutely gutted when mine was destroyed by a leaking roof! Sabbat Worlds does at least give information on power plays and the roles of various officers.

Hope that helps a bit more.

[Aun'aart'al]

Oh, brilliant - would you be able to e-mail me the word doc? I managed to lose mine...! Also, after I posted, I thought "I'm sure Aun'aart'al was active in my Amalthea threads...". Sorry to be so dense! )

lol no problem, can't expect you to remember everyone on this board

To be honest, I'm not sure. I would have thought that something like that would have to exist, but it would be extremely well defended and protected; they would be the heart of the Crusade and each one would be a precious commodity. A bit like Atlantic Conveyor in the Falklands (and how much of a disaster it was when it was hit with the Welsh Guards on board). Frankly, it's your Crusade; if you want Universe-class conveyors, have them. It'll simplify (sort of) your logistics and transport chain.

frankly I only considered including those behemoth ships so that I could lower the number of transports required just for the infantry. There will still be dozens of trips back and forth, but at least it won't be as bad as it could have been

I believe the top ranking Astropath would be something like High Master or Astropath-Lord.

*shrugs* I suppose "Astropath-Lord" will have to do..

I am sure they're there. In the Taros campaign there's a two page spread describing the beginning of the Crusade and it goes into some detail about all the various people the Lord General had to butter up to get involved; and how the Administratum went about organising it. In there they reference the Ad Mech rep, the Administratum officials, the Raptors Marine officers, the Navy, and so on and so forth. Fairly early on. I think just before or just after the spread with planetary information on the left-hand page. In the Vraks one there is, similarly, a great deal of info early on about who was involved with organising and planning the campaign, down to who worked out how many Guardsmen will die, and therefore how many coffins etc were needed.

I did manage to go through my copy of the Taros book and find the information you mentioned, however I could not seem to for the life of me find anything like that in the Vraks book. With the Taros publication I managed to discover I am lacking 1 department, and need to revise 7 titles, but otherwise I was almost spot on. I am not sure if having two Captains from the same marine chapter would be necessary, though, but that might just be me

I forget the correct name. They appear in at least one piece of background material - the original Tau Codex, alongside a (very angry) Imperial Fist Captain. Rogue Trader fleet reps would also be present, although not in a command position, more in a "we would appreciate it if we could move into this sector here to a) exploit trading opportunities and b) assist you in destroying pirates" manner.

oh I know who you're talking about, you're referring to "Adept Raphael Palmatus". Unfortunately that is the most he is called throughout that story

[Gen.Steiner]

Maybe I'm imagining it about Vraks then. Odd. I could've sworn... oh well, at least you found the Taros stuff.

The diplomatic Adept just gives you an opportunity to create your own departmento!

[Shamana]

Maybe I'm imagining it about Vraks then. Odd. I could've sworn... oh well, at least you found the Taros stuff.

The diplomatic Adept just gives you an opportunity to create your own departmento!

The first Ciaphas Cain book mentions a diplomatic service, one of whose corps was trying to smooth the situation with the Tau. I imagine that there may be some aspect of... integration... when fighting against non-chaos tainted renegades. At least enough so that not quite everyone is shot.

[Gen.Steiner]

There are also diplomats (basically intelligence operatives and Inquisition agents) in the 13th Penal Legion series by Gav Thorpe; particularly during the segment where they go and assassinate a rogue Tau leader.

So there is a Diplomatic Corps, it's just a lot more 'spy' than 'diplomat'. More so even than a normal diplomat.

Oh, these add-ons for Codex: Imperial Guard may be of interest to you, Aun'aart'al. Go and have a look, see what you think, and playtest if you like: new units, new gear - all here!

[The bearded one]

I assumed that each ship could (through hydroponics and waste recycling) generate enough water and food to ensure that its crew recieved three meals a day.

Those loyal to the God-Emperor can sustain themselves on their faith. 2 meals a day!

Emperor be praised.




Ya gotta sell the opressive, fanatical religious, irrational grimness of it all

[Gen.Steiner]

Yeeesss... but the God-Emperor also requires that His warriors be well-rested and well-fed, in order to better destroy His enemies without mercy or pause! Praise be unto Him.

[The bearded one]

And the imperium also values the lives of their subj... ppfffhahaha, no I couldn't finish that sentence with a straight face!

[Gen.Steiner]

Only the useful ones.

[KingDeath]

Yeeesss... but the God-Emperor also requires that His warriors be well-rested and well-fed, in order to better destroy His enemies without mercy or pause! Praise be unto Him.

Corpse starch is good for you!

[Sai-Lauren]

Corpse starch is good for you!

Only if you're not diabetic and can thus metabolise it.

(It's also incorrectly named, starch is a sugar, whilst if they are cannibalising the dead, they'd be getting massive amounts of protein. )

Anyway,

The first Ciaphas Cain book mentions a diplomatic service, one of whose corps was trying to smooth the situation with the Tau. I imagine that there may be some aspect of... integration... when fighting against non-chaos tainted renegades. At least enough so that not quite everyone is shot.

They've also appeared through various bits of Imperial/Eldar fluff. But diplomats would also be needed for relations with the Adeptus Mechanicus, Astartes, Rogue Traders, and probably also some of the older and more independantly organised colonies that may not be under as strict controls as others (if they're effectively in an alliance agreed by the Emperor, no one's going to try and go against that, although the IDC could be working on subverting it's intent to bring them more into line).

They could also be the bit of the Administratum responsible for appointing or approving planetary governors.

There are also diplomats (basically intelligence operatives and Inquisition agents) in the 13th Penal Legion series by Gav Thorpe; particularly during the segment where they go and assassinate a rogue Tau leader.

So there is a Diplomatic Corps, it's just a lot more 'spy' than 'diplomat'. More so even than a normal diplomat.

Don't know, I think there's also Imperial Intelligence Agencies, which could well be split into military and civilian , internal and external threats (and possibly infernal too - in addition to the Inquisitorial Ordos), code breakers and so on.

Of course, some of them are in the Diplomatic Corps, but whether the Diplomatic Corps know that about an individual is another matter.

So, what else would the general staff have? The IDC and IIA representatives, the Adeptus Astra Telepathica (which is the full name for the Astropaths ), the Surgeon-General of the Medicae (whether they actually are part of the general staff, or are just the most senior medic in the force), plus someone if there's any Orders Hospitalier either requested or just tagging along

If there's any Titans, the Legion would have at least a representative on the general staff (and the AM may send an advisory party anyway, just in case any archeotech or STC's show up), plus the Officio Assassinorum will have someone up there if they've been invited to the party.

And then there's the Ecclesiarchy - all those priests following the regiments/vessels and catering for their spiritual well being. They'll certainly demand a place, it's down to the strength of character and piety of the overall commander as to whether they actually get one or not. If there's Orders Militant of the Adepta Sororitas, they'll certainly have a seat at the high table, although, again, the commander's personality will dictate how much sway they have when they're up there.

Outside the command/political level, but attached to the general staff, you'd also get the the Military Police (actually under the Commissarat, but worth mentioning in their own right IMO), and the more unique combat units like the Officio Sabatorum, and any Special Forces units, which includes not only Stormtroopers, but also any SAS/Seal types. Regiments that get deployed in smaller detachments might be assigned to the general staff as well, such as Combat Engineers, Ogryn/ Ratlings etc.

[brionl]

for this crusade there are precisely 10,621,434,879 Imperial Guardsmen spread out amongst 10 conquest groups, plus associated vehicles (support and otherwise), plus several thousand space marines, plus tens of thousands of sisters of battle. The enemies are Chaos, Orks (biggest threats; massive neighboring ork empire and chaos cults are everywhere), plus the sectors' own military forces (guard, mechanicus, and renegade marines), plus a small (damaged) craftworld (with associated fleet), plus a dark eldar kabal, plus a few necron tomb worlds

Wait a second, you have 10 BILLION troops in your invasion force? An army that's larger than the entire current population of the whole Earth? And you think that's realistic? The US invasion of Iraq had ~ 200K troops invading a country of ~30 million, or about a 1:10 ratio. You are expecting 100 billion people in the target area?

[Aun'aart'al]

Wait a second, you have 10 BILLION troops in your invasion force? An army that's larger than the entire current population of the whole Earth? And you think that's realistic? The US invasion of Iraq had ~ 200K troops invading a country of ~30 million, or about a 1:10 ratio. You are expecting 100 billion people in the target area?

10+ billion soldiers attacking a sector of space 200x200LY, with some 150 or so inhabited planets, and a population amongst those worlds coming awefully close to 1.35+ trillion. Yes, I will be hurling a mere 10+ billion soldiers at them, and we shall see what happens once the smoke clears

[Iron_Lord]

10+ billion soldiers attacking a sector of space 200x200LY, with some 150 or so inhabited planets, and a population amongst those worlds coming awefully close to 1.35+ trillion. Yes, I will be hurling a mere 10+ billion soldiers at them, and we shall see what happens once the smoke clears

If anything, it's on the small side.

In the Deathwatch book The Achilus Assault, we are told (page 28) that slightly less than 20% of guardsmen serve on the front line- with the rest in combat support, internal security, occupation, reserve, lines of communication, and rear echelon roles.

At the start of the crusade, it's 1 billion frontliners. By the time they fully understand the extent of the enemy presence around the Hadex Anomaly, its 4 billion. After the discovery of hHve fleet Dagon, it had to be increased further- it currently stands at 6 billion.

So we're looking at around 30 billion guardsmen in the Crusade.

[Aun'aart'al]

If anything, it's on the small side.

In the Deathwatch book The Achilus Assault, we are told (page 28) that slightly less than 20% of guardsmen serve on the front line- with the rest in combat support, internal security, occupation, reserve, lines of communication, and rear echelon roles.

At the start of the crusade, it's 1 billion frontliners. By the time they fully understand the extent of the enemy presence around the Hadex Anomaly, its 4 billion. After the discovery of hHve fleet Dagon, it had to be increased further- it currently stands at 6 billion.

So we're looking at around 30 billion guardsmen in the Crusade.

interesting, I haven't read that novel. I could just as easily note that the initial trooper count was at 6 billion when they were trying to retake the sector under old, out-of-date intelligence. They get some new intel, and then the trooper count is bumped first up to the 10.6, and maybe plateauing at 30 billion another further 12 years into the conflict

[Gen.Steiner]

I would say (personally) that a lot of the 'tail' end of Imperial operations is not, in fact, handled by the Guard. Compliant worlds would have PDFs instituted rapidly, whilst the Adeptus Munitorum has vast numbers of menials and adepts for a reason! You don't think those supply chains and fuel bowsers are controlled by precious combat soldiers on their days off, do you?

Those 10 billion soldiers would be being supported by 40 billion (or so) adepts, menials, slaves, servitors, indentured workers, punishment labour gangs, and so on and so forth. And THEY need ships to transport them and vehicles to drive and sidearms to fill and nutrients to ingest and water to drink and and and...

Oh, and yes, 10 billion is a sensible figure for a crusade, bearing in mind that a Hive World of maybe 100 billion people with a PDF of 5% of the population (5 billion) would tithe maybe 10% of that to the Guard (that's 500,000,000 soldiers from one world every year if you're not keeping count). Now multiply that by all the inhabited worlds in a Sector and you can suddenly produce vast armies from almost nowhere.

The REAL limiting factor is how many ships you have to carry them and how many factories you have to supply them!

[Aun'aart'al]

You don't think those supply chains and fuel bowsers are controlled by precious combat soldiers on their days off, do you?

Controlled by? No, but I would imagine they might be guarded. Now granted, I'd say no more than a few million soldiers tops would be guarding these things, and once you compare say 2 million to 10+ billion, it just doesn't seem like a whole lot

Oh, and yes, 10 billion is a sensible figure for a crusade, bearing in mind that a Hive World of maybe 100 billion people with a PDF of 5% of the population (5 billion) would tithe maybe 10% of that to the Guard (that's 500,000,000 soldiers from one world every year if you're not keeping count). Now multiply that by all the inhabited worlds in a Sector and you can suddenly produce vast armies from almost nowhere.

Yeah just checked out some numbers I crunched a little while ago; this sector currently has 30.11 billion soldiers already available, with 13.233 billion more coming in each year

The REAL limiting factor is how many ships you have to carry them and how many factories you have to supply them!

Won't be a problem. This sector is the WWII Germany of this area of space for production and warp routes. Heavily industrialized, and unbelievably rich in mineral deposits

Transporting them around the sector shouldn't prove too much of a problem. The sector contains 63 separate shipyards (9 battleship grade), so building additional freighters or transports wouldn't be out of the question

[Iron_Lord]

interesting, I haven't read that novel.

It's not a novel, but a Fantasy Flight Games splatbook.

It is a bit odd for so small a proportion of Guardsmen in the crusade (20%) to be deployed- but that's possibly to do with the need to keep a strong reserve to reinforce them.

Even within the Guard, there can be variation in the assigned role- in the Ciaphas Cain novel For The Emperor, the 597th was built from a "front-line" regiment and a "rear-echelon" regiment- both of which had been devastated in a Tyranid invasion.

[FabricatorGeneralMike]

10+ billion soldiers attacking a sector of space 200x200LY, with some 150 or so inhabited planets, and a population amongst those worlds coming awefully close to 1.35+ trillion. Yes, I will be hurling a mere 10+ billion soldiers at them, and we shall see what happens once the smoke clears

The only thing I would suggest is that if Titans and the Adeptus Mechanicus are involved they will have a High Magi there along with the Executor Fetial(s) from the Titan Legion(s). I would also suggest picking up the Departmento Minitorium book by Graham McNeill. Some of the questions you have ask earlier are answered in there.

Where abouts in BC are you located? Are you doing this campaign as a store event or basement/someone's home kind of games. Sounds rather interesting.

[Gen.Steiner]

It is a bit odd for so small a proportion of Guardsmen in the crusade (20%) to be deployed- but that's possibly to do with the need to keep a strong reserve to reinforce them.

Or it may be due to other, more esoteric considerations. Perhaps it is a case of overconfidence, or a tarot reading, or a cautious high command, or even a religious requirement due to a misprint 5,000 years ago in a copy of the Tactica Imperialis?

Even within the Guard, there can be variation in the assigned role- in the Ciaphas Cain novel For The Emperor, the 597th was built from a "front-line" regiment and a "rear-echelon" regiment- both of which had been devastated in a Tyranid invasion.

Note, however, that a 'rear-echelon' Guard unit is most likely one that has been rotated out of the front line for a significant period of time, or even one that has simply not yet been sent into action. All the actual rear-echelon duties are carried out by the Munitorum's adepts (at least the ones above Regimental level, as each Regiment has its own 'tail' of camp followers and so on who cluster around its rear staging areas, in its dropship, and so on and so forth).

When it came to my Amalthean Crusade, I figured that each Crusade Front would have two thirds of its force in action at any one time; the remaining third being in rest and refit, or undertaking duties such as PDF training and the like.

And the Crusade as a whole would follow this rule too; so for every two Crusade Fronts there'd be a third in strategic reserve to either exploit success or shore up gaps.

And, my budding Crusade Commanders, don't forget the first rule of battle strategy and tactics: REINFORCE SUCCESS, NOT FAILURE!