My year of hell with Dark Eldar

**Mordax Praetorian** · 30-01-2012, 20:04

So I got into Dark Eldar when they came out a little over a year ago, I was a CSM player up until that point and wanted a less forgiving army that would punish me for all of the silly tactical mistakes I often made, this way I might stop making them.

Since then, I have managed a single win, which can be put down to some very unusual dice rolls on both sides, and other than that I can count the number of kill points I've scored this year on my fingers, it would seem I have absolutely no aptitude for using the army at all. This post is a last ditch effort to find out what it is that I'm doing wrong before the army goes on ebay.

My meta plays at 1500. Towards the start of the year (2011), I had an army that was clearly underequipped for hunting tanks (turns out that lances are bad), it had silly things like Incubii and Harlequins and a single wwp in it, and we started playing with incorrect rules for immobilising a transport after moving flat out. So for a while I was learning a lot from being slaughtered, changing my army composition and tactics to match.

For the past few months, playing has just been depressing, my army still can't do anything reliably against a mechanised force despite being full to the brim with lances, things shoot and do nothing and then die. I can't keep things hidden because they have to move into line of sight of something to shoot which then results in them getting killed by whatever their shots just bounced off of.

The transports are all too tall to hide behind hills, I have a razorwing jetfighter that turns up, finds theres no infantry to unload on and then dies, if it ever does kill an infantry squad then that's a pain token that something else isn't getting, I have blasterborn that jump out of their transport, fail to contribute anything and then die

Getting pain tokens is an uphill struggle, because you have to get the infantry out of the transports first which is incredibly difficult because lances suck, then kill the infantry and by that point your army is dead because smart players don't arrange their stuff so that only what you're shooting at can see you

The only way to pop tanks is to point an entire army at them, at which point everything else dies because you only shot at one thing that turn

The mobility of the army doesn't seem to mean anything, its all very nice being able to move these vast distances but all you're doing by using this to hide something is delaying its inevitable death when it has to enter line of sight to shoot, and all you're doing by using this to get close is denying yourself the ability to do anything when you get there and thus sacrificing the unit in question for no end at all

So I move a raider forward 12" and jump the warriors out of it so they can gun down the contents of a Chimera thats about to have 9 lances shot at it. The Chimera comes out immobilised and with no guns but intact, the warriors sit there and do nothing, the rest of the opponent's army kills the warriors and cripples the shooting vehicles because they didn't fire at anything else. Events like this are a regular occurrence, and infact the only unit that's managed to get pain tokens during a match all year has been my reaver jetbikes - even the match I won all the enemy infantry ran off the board and only the jetbikes and razorwing managed to finish squads off.

We have plenty of terrain on our boards, including 4 big buildings that are house ruled so they block line of sight even when you can see right through them, but raiders are so awkwardly shaped its difficult to obscure one even behind these, and when you're AV10 Open Topped a cover save just isn't enough.

Right now I'm running 2 ravagers, 1 squad of blasterborn in a venom, 1 razorwing, 3 heat lances in my reavers and even with the lances on all my raiders, this still isn't nearly enough av, is there a solution to this other than ignoring the rest of the codex and only running blasterborn and ravagers in addition to my HQ and troops? If thats the case what do I do at larger games where heavy support and elites are all used up with these units?

What on earth do I do with that mobility? How do I keep my units hidden and firing at the same time? Which by definition is impossible because I have to move into LoS to shoot.

I don't get Dark Eldar, I don't understand how the army is ever supposed to work on any level against mechanised lists.

Also what in gods name was Phil Kelly on when he wrote the entry on Night Shields? It starts by talking about range reduction and then about extra distance and there are 3 possible interpretations about what happens when a Melta weapon is shot at something with them. Is the new Melta range 6" less then the old one, Half the new range, or half the new range and then 6" off? The fact that after so many FAQ releases there has still been no attempt to clear this up is just a joke.

Can someone with experience selling armies on Ebay give me a clue about whether it's best to sell this stuff together or as individual units? How do I ship units like raiders without them breaking?

**madival** · 30-01-2012, 20:17

Honestly, it sounds like you need a different army all together. If you have 2 lance ravagers probably average 4 lance raiders, blaster born, heat lances and you can't destroy vehicles , then no other sketch short of IG or tau will get you better results at range. Also, buy new dice. Completely new dice. Make them yourself of you have to, but be active. You could stagger your raiders to get cover on almost all of them. Flat out the first one and have the others covered by 60% and get staggered cover

**Sami** · 30-01-2012, 20:51

is there a solution to this other than ignoring the rest of the codex and only running blasterborn and ravagers in addition to my HQ and troops? If thats the case what do I do at larger games where heavy support and elites are all used up with these units?

Welcome to comp DE lists. Triple ravagers, double trueborn, a Wych squad or two in Raiders and some Warrior/Venom squads. If you have the points, more trueborn or Reavers. As for cover, you generally need to focus on one part of your enemy's army at a time which is where the mobility comes in to it. You should'n't be trying to stay out of LOS of everything, just the parts that you're not shooting. Focus firing with the lances and Venoms will take out enemy units very quickly.

Flickerfields also help - if you're not using them, take them!

**hangnail** · 30-01-2012, 21:01

+1 to buy new dice. if focus firing still isn't killing things, i don't know what will... The other thing is that if you are facing lots of transports, the lance weapons aren't actually helping you a lot - do you have any longer range reasonable strength, high ROF guns? I would say autocannons but that's not a DE gun... I love it when people fire lances at my chimeras because their best armour is 12, vs firing at my Leman Russes and neutering my AV 13/14. Also can you mix it up in terms of deployment (outflank/ deepstrike) so you don't have to come from where they are expecting you? Also, experiment with getting LOS to your target but staying at least part obscured to other parts of their army (the point of high mobility).
It's worth a crack

**althathir** · 30-01-2012, 21:12

Mordax Praetorian - You should post your list in the army list forum (I searched and couldn't find one), Dark Eldar have a lot of upgrades and its fairly easy to take to many. So either post the list here or make a new thread cause its really hard to give to much advice without a clear picture.

**bigbear bailey** · 30-01-2012, 22:01

You can read the tactica thread at the bottom of my post or honestly just sell the lot bro... Some armies aren't meant for people. The CSM/SM's a great for some people as they make up for bad dice most of the time and can keep kicking. DE, tau, and necrons are a very unforgiving army. One mess up and you could lose the game, which isn't good for most players. This doesn't mean your a bad player, jut that there are diffrent strokes for diffrent folks.

**bigbear bailey** · 30-01-2012, 22:06

oh and the codex clearly states that melta weapons RANGE is dropped. The rule book says the 2d6 ap dice roll is based off the half the weapons range, thus meaning it's a 3" 2d6 ap range....

Don't insult the God Phil Kelly again lol

**Aterignis** · 31-01-2012, 05:25

I've noticed that it does indeed take a change of mind-frame to play the army effectively--you just kinda have to hang it out and just run your stuff full steam ahead without trying to be super cautious all the time. Stuff (in my games, most if not all my stuff) is going to get blown up, and in retrospect, the games I've lost terribly were pretty much because I just didn't fully commit. Also, Haywire Grenades are great, get in the habit of abusing every inch of cover you can get from your own wrecks, and learn the assault rules inside and out (which I'm admittedly still working on). Pulling off multi-charges with a modest size group of Shardnet Wyches can be game changing.

**Mike3791** · 31-01-2012, 06:04

Listen man, it sounds like your having trouble with enemy tanks and survivability. Here are a few tips to help you out.

-Dark Lances are not the be all end all of mech, but merely a support tool. Wyches with haywire grenades will ABSOLUTELY DESTROY any vehicle they touch, and they can assault in the 1st turn.

-Trueborn with blasters will boost your ant-tank abilities. Keep them inside vehicles at all times (if possible)

- DO NOT underestimate the Heamolucus coven!! Wracks and Grotesques have HIGH toughness and start with FNP. Always arm them with liquifiers, as 2x liquifers have a 50% chance to REMOVE AN ENTIRE SPACE MARINE SQUAD FROM PLAY. You can field wracks as troops if you take a heamolucus, I would stay away from regular warriors until you get better. Don't forget grotesques either, I've had players dump 20-40 bolter shots into them and the beasts just shrug them off lol

My strategy typically goes:
1) Vect= 1st turn.. if you can't take Vect make sure your raiders are hiding behind cover or other vehicles (ravagers).
2) Wyches w/ raider move up, disembark, fleet, and assault.. destroy enemy tanks/transports 1st turn
3) Wracks & Grotesques move into position
4) Liquifier+Assault
5) ???
6) Profit

Raiders are your friend, use their speed to concentrate on his flanks, never engage all of his army at once. Use the force.

**bigbear bailey** · 31-01-2012, 07:34

Another thing to note here is if you cant aford vect then get the baron. Even if you don't field hellions he's cheap and helps with that first turn.

**Str10_hurts** · 31-01-2012, 07:59

I play dark eldar too, and if someone is fully mech = maximum chimera's I die. And i'm close to the powerhouse list.
I ussually deploy in the middle if I go first of in a corner if I go second. Move everything over one flank using your speed and then use your opponents clunky vehicles against himself for LoS. Pick the army apart one by one. You do play on a 4'x6' table right?

You will always have more struggles if you play against fully mechanised armies no matter what army you play, transports are just so dirt cheap (except Tau).

Just ask if your opponent can play something else than pure mech, it makes for more fun games than just spamming vehicles.
Otherwise get a GK, IG, SW net list and stomp any newb in sight...

**Infidel** · 31-01-2012, 08:21

Sometimes foot lists can be tougher than a mech list. You need to kill all the ablative wounds to remove that one lascannon buried in a squad whereas a tank you can stop the shooting on anything but a 4 on damage table.

I think you might rather face Chim spam than Deathwing tbh.

**TrueKin** · 31-01-2012, 09:35

Originally Posted by Infidel

Sometimes foot lists can be tougher than a mech list. You need to kill all the ablative wounds to remove that one lascannon buried in a squad whereas a tank you can stop the shooting on anything but a 4 on damage table.

I think you might rather face Chim spam than Deathwing tbh.

Actually, for DE nothing is worse than full mech IG. Played against Chimera spam a few times myself, and every time my list has been almost completely wiped out. Foot lists of most armies can be strong against most enemies, though.

The sheer number of lances our lists usually contain, any Terminator army should be as afraid of us as we are of Chimera spam.

Mordax: When playing DE, you won't want to ever disembark any shooty units from their transports. Even the Raiders' AV10 is better protection for most of our units than their own armor. Also, remember that both Raiders and Venoms are Open topped.

Also, don't insult either Phil Kelly or our Lance weaponry. One is the one true God, the other one of the best weapon types of 40k.

**1 ++** · 31-01-2012, 11:22

It sounds to me your army list isn't optimised at all. At 1500 you could get 3 Ravagers, 2x 3 man Trueborn squads, 2x 5 man Warriors w/ Blaster and still have 110 pts for an HQ to ride with the Trueborn.......You want to look at what other armies are fielding and work out what you need to beat them. Also, you need redunancy BIG TIME with DE.

We are extemely unforgiving (I am currently 8 losses straight with a tournie approaching in 2 weeks time..........ouch) the punishment seems to never end, but with each hammering I look at what went wrong (most of the time its too much beer.....)

When its your movement phase, think of DE as a spear, or missile - one solid, cohesive unit focused on annihilating one target. Who cares if it takes 8 Lances/Blasters to pop a Rhino, the fact is the Rhino is poped and the troops on the inside now vulnerable to Venom/Warrior fire.

Position yourself in a way that not only unloads the most firepower into a unit (or 2) but also cuts down the return fire - refuse flank tactic works here. Side armour is what you are looking for.

Also study the opponents army list, ask for a copy and read it and understand it. You're ex-MEQ, there isn't much difference in the weapons category across the board. Take note of what tank has what weapons. Yes a Lascannon hurts, but thats only 1 save to make, but 2 TL Autocannon hurt potentially 3 or 4 times worse.....if ya get my drift. Any Str4 and above weapon is going to hurt our tanks - its up to to know whats going to REALLY hurt in the first 2 turns and deal with that first.