Mantic Price Discussion Thread

[redben]

I just popped over to Mantic's page. Their Corporation models are amazing! But I'm surprised that they are as expensive as they are: From my limited exposure I've come to expect very low prices (less than one GBP per model in most cases) from Mantic, but the corporation is more expensive than this.

Not that it's a bad thing. They seem fairly priced.

It'e because they're in restic rather plastic.

[scarletsquig]

@Gomez - You're coming at this one from quite an odd angle, comparing individual bitz sprues bought from the manufacturer's site.

The sprue itself can be bought direct from GW for £6 which makes it £1.25 per Orc.

6/4 = £1.50 per orc, doesn't come with bases or command or shields. Can't be bought from a discount webstore.

Mantic box can be bought at the price of £25 for 30, or 0.83p each. Does come with bases, command and shields. Can be bought from a discount webstore. Yes, you could buy them at £1/model and make a whole unit using individual sprues bought direct from the mantic site, but this is really clutching at straws since realistically, no-one is going to do that. Some people might buy the GW ones direct though since they are cheaper to get as bitz for some weird reason. If you want to pick the cheapest option for buying orcs from GW, it's only fair to take the cheapest option for buying from mantic as well.

aside from the standard bearer I'm not entirely sure how I'd make a command out of the standard kit.

Mantic orcs do come with a seperate command sprue with champion, standard bearer and musician parts.

Whilst the GW battalion is packed full of different kits from spider riders to goblins, Mantic.. well.. you can get a hundred boys for £75, and spend a few hours converting axes to spears.

Or the £50 orc army box, or the £99 orc mega-army box.

The heads (oh jeez, not the orc head argument *again*...) there are 16 in total, if you mix the Ax, Morax, Greatax and Gore Riders kits. 12 of them even look good.

I completely agree that an orc heads bitz pack would be great, as would a spear arms bitz pack and a bow arms bitz pack.

An even better solution would be Mantic coming back later on and making another set of sprues with spear/bow options and some more new heads and orclings, in a similar way that the Marauder sprues for warpath modified the basic orc sprues by removing the Ax/shield arms and some of the heads and replacing them with sci-fi bits.

For now, it is possible to use the Greatax as spear-orcs, just take the great weapon, have the orc hold it in one hand and add a shield arm to the other side. Or, take the spear arms from the gore riders. It is also possible to make plastic orcs with 2-handed weapons by buying the Warpath Marauders kit, and looting the left-handed weapon arms.

You're right that GW has a more complete model range, that is the main reason why they are currently more popular, Mantic is currently playing catch-up and will be for some time, and have a while to go before they convince everyone.

They need the plastic goblin release out there before their orc range will really start to take off, just as the Mantic Undead are massively popular because they have quite a complete range out currently... the initial release was large, and then they came back and added cheap and well-sculpted zombies, revenant cav and wraiths to it.

Picture coming up.

[rodmillard]

An even better solution would be Mantic coming back later on and making another set of sprues with spear/bow options and some more new heads and orclings, in a similar way that the Marauder sprues for warpath modified the basic orc sprues by removing the Ax/shield arms and some of the heads and replacing them with sci-fi bits.

In an ideal world they would release a wholly new sprue with alternate torsos that can be assembled as spears or bows and kitbashed with the others to add more variety to the existing units - but given the cost involved I don't think we'll see it any time soon

[GomezAddams]

You're coming at this one from quite an odd angle, comparing individual bitz sprues bought from the manufacturer's site.

See I thought it was quite a practical one. In the past you've used Mantics bulk deals to demonstrate how cheap they are, I was attempting to tackle that by showing why there was a difference in price and why GW still offered a relatively good deal in the case of Orcs.

6/4 = £1.50 per orc, doesn't come with bases or command or shields. Can't be bought from a discount webstore.

Bah Maths! Your right. I hadn't actually noticed the shields but as the Mantic ones are integral to the arm, it'd be far easier to equip an GW Orc with a shield then it would be to equip a Mantic orc with a second hand weapon. Your still in a position to choose after purchase with GW, or even magnetise, no so with Mantic which is where the lower price comes in.

Bases are negligible as the mantic ones didn't come with bases either and I assume people would base them however they wanted (plus, you buy a shed load of 25mm bases for nothing these days).

If you want to pick the cheapest option for buying orcs from GW, it's only fair to take the cheapest option for buying from mantic as well.

I get your point, and I agree but... Mantic are quite young as a company. GW has to create on going sales so can't do the same bulk deals as Mantic. They tried it with apocolypse and what happened was the bits sits bought up several sets of things like the leman russ squadrons and battle companies at trade prices, and sold them on as sprues effectively undercutting everyone. Lets face it, theres no market for second hand Mantic figures but theres thousands of GW auctions on ebay right now and warseer has a rather awesome 'for sale' section where a marine army is put up almost daily.

Mantic orcs do come with a seperate command sprue with champion, standard bearer and musician parts.

Key words being separate and parts. I was comparing the basic orc frame only, as I couldn't find a picture of the GW orc command sprue which I have no doubt has enough bits to feed a small army of snotlings.

For now, it is possible to use the Greatax as spear-orcs, just take the great weapon, have the orc hold it in one hand and add a shield arm to the other side. Or, take the spear arms from the gore riders. It is also possible to make plastic orcs with 2-handed weapons by buying the Warpath Marauders kit, and looting the left-handed weapon arms.

Using the greatax is fair enough, not great but yeah. The other options are... meh. Too much hassle for too few parts especially considering the GW sprue comes with them already.

You're right that GW has a more complete model range, that is the main reason why they are currently more popular, Mantic is currently playing catch-up and will be for some time, and have a while to go before they convince everyone.

Its not the only reason, and to boil it down to that is a bit misleading.
Going back to the Mantic range, there's six different things I can buy, not counting bulk purchases etc. Thats the lord, the standard, the armoured orcs, the boar riders, the greatax, and the troops. Lets chuck in the Goblins and the mawbeast and that takes us up to 8. Games workshop has 6 plastic kits in there core section alone for Orcs. You've then got the building options. I shudder to think how many space marines I've built just because of the sheer amount of options on the sprue and build choices. I don't see that looking at the Mantic Orcs, but I do see that looking at the GW Orcs.

But again, very different purposes. The sole use for Mantics orcs is to build an absolute ton of Orcs and little else. They'll be the kit I go to if I ever decide to build an Orcs Must Die boardgame but for my mordheim warband, for my SOBAH crew, it'll be GW.

What doesn't help mantics case either, is the switching between materials. Pick a material and stick to it - I'm happy my little goblin band are in metal. If restics cheaper, invest long term and do everything in restic. If restics too expensive then stick to metal until you can make a proper plastic kit.

[scarletsquig]

^ There's definitely greater options with the GW models, so it really boils down to the extra price, and GW orcs are still roughly double however you look at it.

Even the hybrid metal Mantic Morax with the 2-handed weapons are £15 for 10, as opposed to £18 for 10 GW orcs, so they're beating them even with hybrid metals. It wouldn't take a great deal of effort from Mantic to make those extra spear, bow and head arms for hybrid kits and still come out cheaper while addressing the variety issue. They are starting to come out with bitz packs now and hopefully the trend will continue, adding new weapons and options to their existing plastics wherever possible.

GW used to take this approach, and it was awesome. Back when the first multi-part Empire soldiers were released, you got a unique set of metal command bitz in each box, and the handgunners/ crossbowmen were handled with metal arms. These were being sold, on their launch, at roughly the same price that Mantic is selling its hybrids for today. And as for sculpts, they were superior to anything that GW has produced since.

I'll concede that for, now, GW has the edge if options are what you want, but I think a couple of years from now things will really be getting interesting with Mantic.

You're also not taking into account Kings of War as a game which people do actually buy Mantic models to play with primarily (it is my first consideration when buying models, 40k/fantasy proxying is only done for the sake of entertaining people who won't play anything non-GW). From that perspective.. spear orcs do not exist in the KoW orc army list so there is no issue. I ahve no idea what makes up the bulk of mantic's sales, but KoW players are definitely a factor, and the game encourages/ enables even larger armies than a typical game of warhammer does. Then there's even more flexible rules like DBA/Hordes of the Things and AoA that have been popular and regularly-played alternatives to warhammer since before mantic was around. Mantic models are great for those games, since the rules fit the models rather than the other way around and there isn't much concern over whether the orcs have 2 hand weapons or hand weapon and shield.

On the one hand of this debate, you have people who think that Mantic is overpriced for not costing the same as Perry Miniatures or other cheap historicals,and on the other there is the opinion that GW is worth paying extra for. I'm probably right in the middle... happy to pay for quality, but only to a certain extent. £1/model is roughly what I'm after, as long as I can get that via any combination of bulk army deals/ discount webstores I'm happy. I'd say I'm fairly representative of the average mantic customer... the type where GW tested our patience at £1.50/model, than totally snapped it in half by jacking everything up to £1.80 to £2.50/model.

Resin plastic seems good for the short term, to get some decent sales out of average customers while continuing the massive amounts of releases that will eventually get the company where it needs to be (8+ armies for fantasy and sci-fi, all with complete model ranges).

Also, you've got mail, and a shiny new avatar I made for you!

[Autumn Leaves]

Mantic are a brilliant addition to the options for gamers who want different looking models.
When it's always one provider it gets boring and stale quickly.
But having Mantic around helps keep GW honest because they have to strive to keep up with the competition.
There is no doubt that GW have seen their Undead sales suffer at the hands of the Mantic Undead, no question.
KoW gets played a lot in my local gaming club and all the armies are Mantic, none of them are GW.
To be fair there are some GW models on the table. like for instance the excellent GW savage orcs and some of the lovely older metals like the Black Orcs, but all the armies are predominantly mantic.
I've seen AoA played at the club and those armies have been predominantly GW armies but with KoW people are buying the Mantic models and using them in the KoW games. Scoop for Mantic.
For my part I have sold all my GW plastic orcs for the regular units becaue I think they are rubbish sculpts. They are old and out of proportion and just not good quality so i have changed them out and swapped in all Mantic Orcs and the army looks so much better for it.
I still run my lush metal G-dub black orcs and also the lovely metal savage orcs but all the grunt units are Mantic and awesome and much much cheaper than GW when you buy a Mantic bulk deal.
The good news is some numpties are buying my rubbish old plastics hee haw so the Mantic army is virtually free for me and I get the lovely Mantic points to spend on their bonus reward system.
I'm going to buy the £150 pound mega undead deal next and change out most (but not all) of my GW zombies and ghouls.
That should go some way toward funding my new purchases as well.
Woohoo

[Autumn Leaves]

[apologies for double post]

I just popped over to Mantic's page. Their Corporation models are amazing! But I'm surprised that they are as expensive as they are:

Number of Miniatures: 148
Product Type: Plastic Resin Miniatures
This Set Includes:

•1 x FREE Warpath Rules
•1 x FREE Metal Corporation Major-General with Energy Fist and Energy Sword options
•60 x Corporation Marines Includes Energy Fists and Special Weapons
•9 x two-man Heavy Weapon Squad with Heavy Laser and Autocannon variants
•30 x Corporation Veterans - 24 Veterans with Special Weapons and 6 x two-man Heavy Weapon Team
•40 x Corporation Rangers includes drop-packs and special weapons
•Round Plastic Bases

Quantity: 148 models and a free rulebook and Mantic Points for the bonus rewards system

Price: £149.99

Almost exactly a pound a miniature, and with all those weapons teams included, and the special character model you'll never get a bargain like that price anywhere for new GW products for 40K

[Tonny]

Mantic are a brilliant addition to the options for gamers who want different looking models.
When it's always one provider it gets boring and stale quickly.
But having Mantic around helps keep GW honest because they have to strive to keep up with the competition.
There is no doubt that GW have seen their Undead sales suffer at the hands of the Mantic Undead, no question.
KoW gets played a lot in my local gaming club and all the armies are Mantic, none of them are GW.
To be fair there are some GW models on the table. like for instance the excellent GW savage orcs and some of the lovely older metals like the Black Orcs, but all the armies are predominantly mantic.
I've seen AoA played at the club and those armies have been predominantly GW armies but with KoW people are buying the Mantic models and using them in the KoW games. Scoop for Mantic.
For my part I have sold all my GW plastic orcs for the regular units becaue I think they are rubbish sculpts. They are old and out of proportion and just not good quality so i have changed them out and swapped in all Mantic Orcs and the army looks so much better for it.
I still run my lush metal G-dub black orcs and also the lovely metal savage orcs but all the grunt units are Mantic and awesome and much much cheaper than GW when you buy a Mantic bulk deal.
The good news is some numpties are buying my rubbish old plastics hee haw so the Mantic army is virtually free for me and I get the lovely Mantic points to spend on their bonus reward system.
I'm going to buy the £150 pound mega undead deal next and change out most (but not all) of my GW zombies and ghouls.
That should go some way toward funding my new purchases as well.
Woohoo

I agree that Mantic is a good alternative for who want another *style* of orcs. The same goes for the Wargames Factory orcs.

I don't think GW sees Mantic as a competition, they probably should. But I don't think they do. Just guessing

I am not so sure if GW VC sales suffered thanks to Mantic. For me Mantic Zombies are the only big hit, for the rest I think GW VC are much better. But that's taste.. GW loses sales because their prices, not because Mantic takes away players. Anyway GW still makes profit.

I haven't seen any KoW games, but than I play mostly at home with friends and don't really to gaming clubs. What I do see a lot is FoW.

I have the older metal Black Orcs and they are exactly the same as the new Plastic Black Orcs. The same design. This was on of the sets were GW just copied the metal design. So the Plastic BO are much better, plastic and the same design as the previous metal BO.
Regular GW orcs are fine. They have lot of diversity and fit the current range. Could they use a update. Sure. How old are those kits 10-12 years? Plastic boar riders, savage orcs, Savage Orcs boar riders, night goblins, spider riders ... lots and lots of choices.
The metal savage orcs and plastic savage orcs are a different design.

Well instead of the mega undead deal I am going to buy 2x GW new VC battalion. It would cost me around 140 euro and than I have 40 Skeletons, 40 Ghouls, 20 Dire Wolves, 2 Corpse Carts. Only the Corps Carts I can't use, as I would have 4 of them.

Is it a better deal price wise than Mantics, ofcourse not. But I do believe you get better value for your money.

When you don't own an undead army and you want to start an undead army. You should certainly look at Mantic and GW. Mantic has the price benefit, but GW really has a bigger choice of mini's and a better presentation of their mini's (picture wise). Also something GW is without competition are there big/huge plastic sets. Something Mantic is lacking. Yeah it's can becool to have loads of mini's on the table, but what certainly is cool is to have a nicely painted plastic centerpiece on the table. The eyecatcher of your army. The Terrorgheist/Zombiedragon/Coven Throne... .

Edit: and for the Warpath deals. Another minor thing, Mantic needs tanks for SF. It's nice to have those nice co. mini's but were are the transport, tanks, fliers... .

[zoggin-eck]

I think people get way too hung up on price and comparing manufacturers (do these people freak out every moment of their lives lives comparing different food, clothes, cars etc. ?).

As said, I think by now everyone gets it that GW are an expensive option, we really do get it!

One thing Tonny here mentioned is "value for money". For some reason, simply the number of models seems to be what the most vocal people cry when comparing prices. The mantic models I've seen are so charmless I'd have no interest painting them, or even looking at them outside of a battle, so they're rubbish value for money. I'm willing to try the skeletons since my own units are a mix of different models, and I'm not especially fond of any of them over the other, but that's about it. If a friend was getting into Warhammer or similar, I'd reccomend the starter sets of they were into those armies. The "building bigger armies" bit only works while they are quite cheap, which some sadly are not. At the moment I'd go for a human army and go mad on Perry miniatures and other historicals over mantic, I guess.

I was originally quite excited about Mantic (as a new range of models, not just "cheap cheap cheap!"), but I'd be more interested if they came out with something original, or some exceptional models if they have nothing new to come up with (cue the usual "but GW steals ideas/is unoriginal themselves" )

[BobtheInquisitor]

Once again, Scarlet and Autumn, comparing the Costco-sized mega-huge deal to anyone else's prices is silly. I'm pretty sure I could buy a 10-gallon drum of Maple syrup for a ridiculously cheap per-ounce price, but that still wouldn't make it a good idea.

As Gomez has pointed out, Mantic's industrial sized deals and bulk rates only make sense for one type of wargamer: the kind who essentially want a horde of tokens they can use for their favorite rules and don't give a feather or a fig if they are bringing a boring-looking clone army to the table. Painting such a horde is probably as dull and joyless as a fling with George Will, more mechanical repetition than passion. And people who care so little for the art of modelling could always just buy a bunch of those cheap EM4 orcs or use empty bases.

It's great that Mantic is really succeeding with that particular submarket, but the number of people who mention price as an object indicates that Mantic is having trouble appealing to casual customers and potential customers due to a perceived lack of quality for money. Bits may not seem important to you, Scarlet (you never mention them in your price calculations, ever), but they are a very important part of the hobby for many modellers and wargamers.

(Your comparisons always make Mantic look less appealing to me because you keep giving me the mental image of an entire table covered in a pile of identical models, an image of a two-man sprue stomping on a human face, forever.)

[imm0rtal reaper]

As Gomez has pointed out, Mantic's industrial sized deals and bulk rates only make sense for one type of wargamer: the kind who essentially want a horde of tokens they can use for their favorite rules and don't give a feather or a fig if they are bringing a boring-looking clone army to the table.

Painting such a horde is probably as dull and joyless as a fling with George Will, more mechanical repetition than passion. And people who care so little for the art of modelling could always just buy a bunch of those cheap EM4 orcs or use empty bases.

This isn't true at all.

My mantic army currently stands at over 150 miniatures, 80 of those are skeletons, and I, nor anyone who had seen them has thought they look boring. Do they have clone poses, sure, but how many space marine armies have you seen filled with the *bolter across the chest head looking in various directions* pose (I'm very aware you can make them look interesting, but I've seen plenty of boring looking SM armies.)

And as far as painting goes, I have two points:

I've still got 60+ skeletons to paint and I'm looking forward to it, I don't think "oh god, not more of these" I may be different because I work on making the bases of the units looking unique (an example, I'm working on a Revenant regiment at the moment with a bunch of them emerging from a modelled rive complete with water effects.)

My second point addresses variety through painting. I've painted almost 50 zombies now using zombie and ghoul parts. I've just started painting ghouls, using the same pieces, but a totally different scheme. And I think if you put them together, they look totally different.

Like any army, a mantic army is only as boring as the builder makes it. If you're willing to do conversion, unit fillers, funky bases, you'll end up with a great looking army, if not, then it'll probably look boring. But that is true of GW also!

[redben]

GW don't see any minis manufacturer as competition. They see themselves competing in a different market for disposable income that would otherwise go on ipads, Nike trainers and suchlike.

Mantic/GW is not an either/or proposition. I can and do buy from each in making an army. I can field their skeletons, ghouls and zombies alongside GW Corpse Cart, Mortis Engine and Vargheists or their Orcs alongside GW Goblins, Savage Orcs and Spear Chukkas. Likewise I can buy my character models from Avatars of War. Nor is it simply a case of price. I prefer Mantic Undead to the GW equivalents. That they're also cheaper is a bonus. I'd be happy with either company's Orcs, in which case price becomes a deciding factor. I'm not a fan of the Dwarves so wouldn't buy them regardless. I will pay more for an AoW model than its GW equivalent.

This is a thread specifically about the price of Mantic models so if people don't want to get into a discussion on price this isn't the thread for you. If quality is more of a concern then start a thread about the quality of the minis instead.

Mantic are a small company who have had to make a significant investment in time and money just to reach the point they're at now. To complain that they haven't released this type of model yet or this mini should be in plastic is deeply unfair on them. They can only do what they can do and they need to balance a whole host of considerations when planning their releases. Time will tell whether there's a long-term place in the market for them.

[Tonny]

This isn't true at all.

My mantic army currently stands at over 150 miniatures, 80 of those are skeletons, and I, nor anyone who had seen them has thought they look boring. Do they have clone poses, sure, but how many space marine armies have you seen filled with the *bolter across the chest head looking in various directions* pose (I'm very aware you can make them look interesting, but I've seen plenty of boring looking SM armies.)

And as far as painting goes, I have two points:

I've still got 60+ skeletons to paint and I'm looking forward to it, I don't think "oh god, not more of these" I may be different because I work on making the bases of the units looking unique (an example, I'm working on a Revenant regiment at the moment with a bunch of them emerging from a modelled rive complete with water effects.)

My second point addresses variety through painting. I've painted almost 50 zombies now using zombie and ghoul parts. I've just started painting ghouls, using the same pieces, but a totally different scheme. And I think if you put them together, they look totally different.

Like any army, a mantic army is only as boring as the builder makes it. If you're willing to do conversion, unit fillers, funky bases, you'll end up with a great looking army, if not, then it'll probably look boring. But that is true of GW also!

It's easier with GW miniatures to make a diverse army. You have more bits, more heads, more weapon options, more legs, torsos, shields... . Thus more value for money. I think GW offers the more complete package. For wargaming and collecting. You have such a wide array of models and bits to combine. That if you want and invest the money you can make 40 different greatswords. Using 40 different heads from the Archer set, Greatsword set, Manann's blades, Ironside handgunners. Expensive unit, but it's a unit with class
Same for Orcs, you have so much options.

This is something Mantic simply doesn't have. I prefere 40 unique models instead of a couple of hundreds clones and for what type of game you needs more than 200 miniatures?
When you buy those Mantic big armydeals you have hundred of mini's, but what do you do with it. You don't need so many miniatures for an army.

Not the quantity is important imo, but the value you get for it. It's different for everybody. But I prefer 10 mini's with lots of options than 40 mini's for the same price that are less diverse and have almost no options.

I would have no problem paying GW prices for Mantic figures if they give me the same diversity/options and please make mantic heroic scale. True scale is ok for Historicals, but imo not for fantasy.

[redben]

I would have no problem paying GW prices for Mantic figures if they give me the same diversity/options and please make mantic heroic scale. True scale is ok for Historicals, but imo not for fantasy.

Which is your personal preference but not everybody's. I don't want Mantic to be the same as GW, I have GW for that. I much prefer the more realistically proportioned elves that Mantic do and I don't need sprues full of bits.

[imm0rtal reaper]

This is something Mantic simply doesn't have. I prefere 40 unique models instead of a couple of hundreds clones and for what type of game you needs more than 200 miniatures?
When you buy those Mantic big armydeals you have hundred of mini's, but what do you do with it. You don't need so many miniatures for an army.

Not the quantity is important imo, but the value you get for it. It's different for everybody. But I prefer 10 mini's with lots of options than 40 mini's for the same price that are less diverse and have almost no options.

I would have no problem paying GW prices for Mantic figures if they give me the same diversity/options and please make mantic heroic scale. True scale is ok for Historicals, but imo not for fantasy.

Actually, for kings of war it's easy to have hundreds and hundreds of models in a relatively small game, say 2000 points.

And as to the scale issue, I was always in the heroic camp, until I brought mantic. Now when I look at a GW fantasy miniature with massive hands and feet, and huge heads, I just think it looks stupid. Of course, there are still a lot of warhammer models I find very nice, but I'm definitely camp realistic scale now!

[scarletsquig]

I would have no problem paying GW prices for Mantic figures if they give me the same diversity/options and please make mantic heroic scale.

Let me get this straight - you would be fine with Mantic raising their prices to the same levels as GW, adding loads of sprue components and making their models heroic scale?

What exactly would be point of Mantic existing if they went ahead and did both of those things and were exactly the same as GW?

I know some people out there are desperate for Mantic to turn into a GW clone for their own personal reasons, but this really takes the cake. Why not just go ahead and buy GW models (I'm assuming you currently do?) and completely ignore Mantic as a business if GW currently provides everything you want at prices you have no problem paying for?

And people who care so little for the art of modelling could always just buy a bunch of those cheap EM4 orcs or use empty bases.

So, the debate is now that Mantic models look just as good as empty bases on the table? Can we at least try to have a debate with some bearing on reality?

This is the kind of thing that separates posters like (for example) Gomez and Max Jet, from everyone else. The intent to actually argue a point seriously and present a proper argument and explanation as opposed to posts like this which are false statements, and you knew they were false when you posted them. Max Jet is correct that historicals are better value if those are competing for your attention, and Gomez is right that GW offers both better variety on the sprue, and across the range of models as a whole.

I hope you realize that you're lowering the credibility of everyone on your side of the debate when you make such statements. I'd be embarrassed to have someone on the pro-mantic side saying stuff like "you might as well just play with lumps of gold rather than GW models, all they are is a reason to show off how rich you are".

Once again, Scarlet and Autumn

If you'd read my original price comparison before attacking it (I'm assuming you didn't), you'd see that I specifically mentioned at the end of it that my comparison only applies to bulk purchase. I have never compared bulk-buy Mantic boxes to single-box GW or WGF and never will.

Here it is in its full and unabridged format:

I'll do a more accurate comparison to WGF that takes heavy weapon pricing into account since I have to concede that comparisons to GW are irrelevant to some people.

Mantic Corporation Battle Company

86x infantry, 8x heavy weapon teams, 1x metal commander

£99, free shipping.

WGF Alien Suns with 10% bulk discount

90x infantry, 9x heavy weapon teams.

£92.93, shipping not included.

So, pricing is roughly equivalent between WGF and Mantic.* Buy whichever models you like the look of more.


*when you're specifically looking at the bulk-end of things and also specifically looking at the prices on the manufacturers sites, along with any other statements of the obvious that I've forgotten to add, but could potentially be called out on.

[BobtheInquisitor]

So, the debate is now that Mantic models look just as good as empty bases on the table? Can we at least try to have a debate with some bearing on reality?

I didn't say anything even remotely like that. Try reading my post again.

I did say that the kind of gamer who gets excited about Mantic because he can buy 500 models for super-cheap (BECAUSE they are super cheap) has even cheaper options. I don't know about you, but I have seen people use empty bases, coke cans and other debris as tokens instead of using expensive models. I was talking about a subset of wargamers who care more about the number of models in their armies instead of the variety and quality of the models in their armies.

And for the record, while I am not personally a fan of Mantic's style of orc, I do recognize that they have a distinct style and well-sculpted miniatures, even if they have few options. I think we can all roughly agree that Mantorcs are as superior to WGF orcs as WGF orcs are to empty bases.

Also, I plan on buying at least a sprue or two of Mantic orcs just to see if my opinion of them changes when I see them in the flesh, if they have the Mantic elf effect.


And Immortal Reaper, I would not consider you to be a member of that subset of boring modellers. You clearly spend the time it takes to make an interesting army, investing your hours instead of your dollars for the same effect. I'm just not as patient.

Also, I HATE Space Marines standing there with bolters across their chests. They might as well be marching. Thanks a lot, BfM and AoBR.

This is the kind of thing that separates posters like (for example) Gomez and Max Jet, from everyone else. The intent to actually argue a point seriously and present a proper argument and explanation as opposed to posts like this which are false statements, and you knew they were false when you posted them. Max Jet is correct that historicals are better value if those are competing for your attention, and Gomez is right that GW offers both better variety on the sprue, and across the range of models as a whole.

I hope you realize that you're lowering the credibility of everyone on your side of the debate when you make such statements. I'd be embarrassed to have someone on the pro-mantic side saying stuff like "you might as well just play with lumps of gold rather than GW models, all they are is a reason to show off how rich you are".

If someone were buying GW models just because they were expensive, you'd have a point. Heck, for a while you could have said that about Forgeworld.

If you'd read my original price comparison before attacking it (I'm assuming you didn't), you'd see that I specifically mentioned at the end of it that my comparison only applies to bulk purchase. I have never compared bulk-buy Mantic boxes to single-box GW or WGF and never will.

Here it is in its full and unabridged format:

I've read it and responded numerous times that comparing bulk buys is inadequate since so few people make all their model purchases in bulk buys. What point is there in comparing prices no one but Mantic Fanatics will ever pay?

You know, cars are individually cheaper, too, if you're willing to buy them by the batch. Why don't more people take advantage of that?

[Baragash]

Can we at least try to have a debate with some bearing on reality?

You know, cars are individually cheaper, too, if you're willing to buy them by the batch. Why don't more people take advantage of that?

Presumably you're also going to furnish is with the market data to back up the claim about what basket size gamers buy their models in?

I was talking about a subset of wargamers who care more about the number of models in their armies instead of the variety and quality of the models in their armies.

I like quality models, and I'm prepared to pay for them (such as FW's Brass Scorpion or Maelstrom's Terror of Fortuna). Variety is not a measure of quality by any stretch, nor is it some sort of mark of a person's "hobby quality" or commitment to wargaming or whatever it is you're attempting to imply. Speaking as someone that's assembled hordes of skeletons for a Tomb King army, variety became an irritating drain on my limited leisure time after about the 10th one. I doubt many people want armies equivalent to GW Chaos Warriors, but having models that have lots of parts that fit together in multiple ways has some substantial diminishing returns for a fair number of wargamers attemping to assemble large armies for battle games.

[scarletsquig]

You know, cars are individually cheaper, too, if you're willing to buy them by the batch. Why don't more people take advantage of that?

That's it, I'm pretty much done bothering taking you seriously on this.

I'm glad that you like some of Mantic's models though, and are still happy to buy the more reasonably-priced ones. By supporting the company even while it has some major flaws in your eyes, you're helping them get to where both they and you eventually want them to be (GW quality kits, at less than half the price for multiple armies).

I'm fairly certain that in 2 years time Mantic is going to take off quite nicely, it's just that most people won't buy in until they get there. I reserve full "annoying hipster" rights for when that eventually happens.

[redben]

I've read it and responded numerous times that comparing bulk buys is inadequate since so few people make all their model purchases in bulk buys. What point is there in comparing prices no one but Mantic Fanatics will ever pay?

I've bought in bulk from Mantic and GW. I bought army deals for the Orcs, Undead and Abyssal Dwarves from Mantic and I've bought a WoC battalion from GW. I'm pretty certain enough people must be doing this to make both those companies keep producing them. Nor am I a Mantic fanatic. I buy freely from all companies depending on my preference for their individual models.