Mantic Restic vs Plastic vs Metal Discussion Thread.

[Darsc Zacal]

Please use this thread for all discussions, observations, queries, and general rants regarding the merits, or lack thereof, of Mantics use of resin/plastic (restic) vs plastic vs metal in Mantics various miniatures lines.

Let's all help keep the Mantic News and Rumour Threads uncluttered.

Thanks guys!

[The Salmon Lord]

Restic beats metal so far for me. Better definition and feel, less warped and actually fit together. Plus lighter so much easier to glue.

[redben]

I prefer restic too. Would happily never buy another metal mini.

[scarletsquig]

Continuing the discussion from the fantasy News and Rumour thread:

The machinery is not the issue with injection moulding, being able to hire people with 30+ years of experience at doing what they do is. So, Renedra are the premium option, and I personally find the sprues that Renedra makes to be more finely detailed, with superior casting quality and fewer mould lines than GW's sprues. The material is better too, the GW stuff hasn't been as good ever since they switched to a plastic mix that is a darker grey.

And then, beyond the tooling, there is also the production to consider. Ronnie has already mentioned on this forum that they have taken every crazy demand for hordes and hordes of plastic that mantic has thrown at them and managed to get it all done without any problems.

As for other manufacturers, they've already started using a different one for stuff like the warpath bases, where high quality isn't really needed because they're just plain discs of plastic. I'm fairly sure that they're well aware of all their options.

Of course, injection moulding can indeed be done on a budget - Here's an excellent video from the man who runs Proxie models, a one-man business that makes a ton of bases and terrain for really low prices. A 28mm plastic sci-fi tank is even in the works.

With Renedra, it is a service that is being paid for. Outsourcing is always more expensive, but does come with a lot of benefits, especially for a small company like Mantic, which tends to contract out everything that it can. It gives out 3-ups and gets back boxes of plastic sprues without having to deal with any of the stuff that happens in between those 2 points.

[Max Jet]

Continued from the Fantasy thread. Care to elaborate on your sources concerning the "40 000 pounds is right" number?

[scarletsquig]

Not my sources, and no.

[Max Jet]

Not my sources, and no.

Then those numbers could come from anywhere. If you haven't spoken to the manufacturer directly I would like to raise the question as to why you firmly believe in those. You do not need to answer. For further discussion (especially the reoccuring pricing debates) I just want to express my doubts on those.

[EmperorNorton]

Then those numbers could come from anywhere. If you haven't spoken to the manufacturer directly I would like to raise the question as to why you firmly believe in those. You do not need to answer. For further discussion (especially the reoccuring pricing debates) I just want to express my doubts on those.

I find the 40K figure a bit high, too.
Source

[redben]

I find the 40K figure a bit high, too.
Source

Not too much higher and that's only for one sprue. Launch a new range with 3+ model types and you're up close to a 100k outlay before even seeing a mini. I also spoke to Ronnie about this at the Mantic open day at Maelstrom when they were showing off the three-ups for the upcoming Undead range and those figures are about what I was told.

[Autumn Leaves]

I don't care whether Mantic use spun plastic, or metal.
It's not important to me what medium they use, what is important is the quality of the sculpts because the bottom line is it doesn't matter what the material used for the models is made from, it doesn't matter to a point what the price point is, if the models are not attractive the product will not sell.
However, Mantic have made many lovely sculpts in both mediums and the advantage of the spun plastic resin is that it means they can offer more of the product cheaper to the customer while still making a profit and keeping the sculpting quality.
It has been an impressive debut into the market for Mantic.
Their plastics have rocked my world.
Their prices have made it impossible to resist their charms even though I don't need their models to play any games.

[scarletsquig]

Note that that post by Heresy is from 2 years ago. VAT on goods and services in the UK has increased from 15% to 20% in that time period, even before factoring in anything else. I'm not stating anything more than that because Warseer has an ugly history of kicking up a stink and badmouthing Renedra and implying that they are the reason why X thing from Mantic has failed, to the point where it seems to have annoyed or at least irritated some of the staff. That's not something I'm happy about at all, so my contributions to that particular line of discussion end here.

[shelfunit.]

Warseer has an ugly history of kicking up a stink and badmouthing Renedra and implying that they are the reason why X thing from Mantic has failed, to the point where it seems to have annoyed or at least irritated some of the staff.

Have you got a link to that, as I haven't seen anything along those lines?

[scarletsquig]

I can't be bothered to trawl through the Fantasy N&R thread, but it's definitely in there.

[Autumn Leaves]

I don't know anything about that either shelfie but I'm prepared to take Scarlets word for it, it fits the bill as it were.

For my part my knowledge of Renedra is limited but in the industry among the sculptors and manufacturers they are well regarded as being a professional outfit who know their onions.
Regarding work overloads, well that speaks for itself, they must be good at what they do or they wouldn't be so busy in what is now a long running recession, in a luxury commodity industry.

[Max Jet]

I don't know anything about that either shelfie but I'm prepared to take Scarlets word for it, it fits the bill as it were.

That's the point. Although his words mean a lot he cannot actually give it to you on this matter as the informations obviously aren't first hand.

I'm curious just how many companies are out there, in the UK, Europe, Asia, North America, that have the capability to do plastic injection molding at the level of detail required for miniature soldiers.

In China it's a billion (almost no exaggeration, you can look it up on the mould manufacturer index.) Personally I would contact Sino Mould for an offer. I have heard the very best things about them and although they normaly don't go too much into the Toy business, they could well be interested to enlarge their list of reference.

I found it interesting that Defiance Games had chosen to go with a plastics manufacturer that had no previous experience with the level of detail required for miniatures. Not that those behind Defiance have the best track record at decision making anyway...

They most certainly did it because of finances. The idea was pretty good actually as there are a ton of mould manufacturers. A very tiny percantage of them however have experience with model kits, however if it is that much more cheaper then any company should at least try.

Defiance Games staff doesn't have a record that reeks of professionalism, I would like to see another company going that route. I do believe Renedra is being chosen because they are the most reliable and by far most experienced. This is just my personal beliefe, based on no hard facts and zero experience. But I could very well imagine them to be something like the Dwarfs in fantasy if you allow me that joke. They charge you an arm and a leg but they do deliver you the very finest.

[redben]

Some info about plastic vs. metal production has popped up on one of miniwargaming.com's videos for their Dark Potential fundraiser. They started out with the goal of raising $10,000 to make five metal minis. The bulk of the money is for things like concept art, sculpting and packaging. The cost of a mold they give at $100-200 and the cost of the metal as 50c per mini. They then say that to do a single sprue would cost anywhere between $20-50k depending on what needed to go on the sprue and the cost of the plastic would be about 25c per sprue. It would also need to be outsourced to either the UK or China.

[mattjgilbert]

If they are the best at what they do in the UK and/or other suppliers are scarce, they can also charge a premium. That's not reflecting badly on them, it's just economics.

[Darsc Zacal]

I'm curious just how many companies are out there, in the UK, Europe, Asia, North America, that have the capability to do plastic injection molding at the level of detail required for miniature soldiers.

I found it interesting that Defiance Games had chosen to go with a plastics manufacturer that had no previous experience with the level of detail required for miniatures. Not that those behind Defiance have the best track record at decision making anyway...

[redben]

Fireforge are a new historical minis company based in Italy and they've chosen Renedra to make their first kit so it's not just a UK thing. I can't imagine they'd get so much business if there were viable alternatives.

[Darsc Zacal]

I've only seen the Fireforge stuff in photo's, but it does look pretty good. I find it interesting that their first kit is plastic cavalry.

I recall that was a big disappointment for a lot of folks when Mantic chose not to go plastic for their cavalry. Different markets though I guess.