What is it about Warmachine/Hordes that you don't like?

[HRM]

Yes pretty regularly. They fulfil a different function, but they are nice and cheap. Plus with 35 winter guard I can't take them all as deathstars because there is a limit on the uA and only one Joe.

What function do they fulfill?

[Sunshine and Night]

I dislike some parts of Warmahordes becuase as others have said the Zeal and hate of the (seemingly) majority of WMH players about other systems really annoys me.

When did you last see a 40k or FB player totally lose it in an arguement about which is the best system, I never seen it, while plenty of People in the events ive been to(The Whole of The UK and EU) have done it and they(only) play WMH.

In short the only WMH players I've met who never gave even a half-patronising comment about 40k and FB is a grand total of none.

This is not meant to be Trolling Comment

P.S. I do play Warmachine but with Ret, and the coverage of them(specifaclly in the Colossals video) gets dwarfed even by the Mercs, reminds me of Marine-Syndrome!

[RandomThoughts]

I don't like how internal balance isn't as good as the PP fanboys make it out to be. Has anyone EVER taken Winter Guard Infantry without taking the whole "deathstar"? Seriously, if the unit is not good on it's own, if the UA is a de facto auto-include... then just make the UA part of the unit, and bump up the cosat by however many points.

I do. I'm certainly not a top level tournament player, more an enthusiastic newby still figuring a lot of stuff out, but I recently run a 6+UA Winter Guard in my Khador list.

As I said, that the background reinforces that mechanic doesn't really make it good. The entire premise of the game and background revolves around the concept that the warcaster/warlock is absolutely central to the army. Removing them makes most things stop working altogether/go out of control. I don't like that they decided to make the game and setting work that way. Playing on doesn't make this mechanic any better, it just reinforces the problem. Even if you don't stop playing when the caster is dead, removing them effectively removes your jacks/beasts and makes it all but a victory.

It creates a decisive feel, but I don't like mechanics that are so dependent on one another that removing them effectively stops the game.

Hellebore

I fully agree, it's one of the things I like least about Warmachine. When I first started, that and my aversion towards named characters made me try to write rules for 0 warcasters and no jacks / marshalled light jacks only, but it never went anywhere.

I actually enjoy playing Warmachine the way it is now, with Warcasters and all, but the game system designed specifically for me as a customer would be based around standard troopers, with optional non-named characters that mostly improve the rest of their army with orders/buffs.

[Aladin_sane]

P.S. I do play Warmachine but with Ret, and the coverage of them(specifaclly in the Colossals video) gets dwarfed even by the Mercs, reminds me of Marine-Syndrome!

I don't understand that, Retribution have had just as much attention as any of the other factions since their introduction, they even got a Battle Engine whereas Mercs didn't. The Colossi video was showing off what they've done so far, you'll notice neither Menoth nor Cryx got any more 'coverage' than Ret got in this video.

[Grimtuff]

I don't understand that, Retribution have had just as much attention as any of the other factions since their introduction, they even got a Battle Engine whereas Mercs didn't. The Colossi video was showing off what they've done so far, you'll notice neither Menoth nor Cryx got any more 'coverage' than Ret got in this video.

But Ret are considered by many (myself included) to be an "incomplete" faction, esp. when compared to the other factions. Their book was the first experiment with the Tier lists. Most of the Ret Tiers are frankly "meh" and need redoing to add a little oommph to them.

Looking at the other factions we have: No Epics, No medium or large based casters (hell, we need more Casters full stop. Specifically a Jack Caster. Vyros is not one.), No silly big Character Jack like Big B or Thunderhead, we need more Jacks in general, more UA's, more units to choose from (though this will hopefully be remedied as House Vyre units are mentioned in Ossy's Tier).

Ret seem to have been neglected a little since their initial release as their amount of releases have been the same as everyone elses, where their book should have contained more units than it did otherwise if PP released more Ret units in the latest expansion than the other factions then people would moan they're getting unfair attention. Go figure...

[Havock]

If you don't want the game te end quickly, take casters that go for the grind game rather than the assassination run. Irusk (either type) for example.

[Aladin_sane]

@Grimtuff - Where you honestly expecting them to bring out a new faction that matched the already developed factions right off the bat? I'll agree that they are lacking a few unit and caster types but it's not like that stuff isn't being remedied. In wrath they got a great new heavy jack kit which included an awesome character jack, and with the new announcements Ret have been getting everything all the other factions have been getting. Even the Hordes armies still lag behind Warmachine in some respects, but that doesn't mean they aren't just as good.

[Sunshine and Night]

I don't understand that, Retribution have had just as much attention as any of the other factions since their introduction, they even got a Battle Engine whereas Mercs didn't. The Colossi video was showing off what they've done so far, you'll notice neither Menoth nor Cryx got any more 'coverage' than Ret got in this video.

Cryx got art, Menoth got art and the card for theirs,Ret got 3d animations

Retribution are also the Only WMH faction that doesnt have some sort of Battlebox(Minions and Mercs arent their own faction reaaly so they are exempt)!

[AlexHolker]

As a non-player who only ventured into this part of the forum because of the Khador colossus...

1. The art style. While there are certainly exceptions (like those Khador assassins), most of the things I would like in theory are ruined by oversized paldrons, ridiculous hats and other questionable artistic choices. On the Warjack side, the only one I like that I've seen is said Khador colossus, since it's got a waist and legs appropriate for its stature.

2. The lack of plastics. And no, restic/spin-cast doesn't count. My next gaming purchase is probably going to be a Defiance Games kit, because cheap, mass produced sprues beat stock shortages, high prices and two-monoposed-sculpts-per-squad any day of the week.

[Grimtuff]

@Grimtuff - Where you honestly expecting them to bring out a new faction that matched the already developed factions right off the bat? I'll agree that they are lacking a few unit and caster types but it's not like that stuff isn't being remedied. In wrath they got a great new heavy jack kit which included an awesome character jack, and with the new announcements Ret have been getting everything all the other factions have been getting. Even the Hordes armies still lag behind Warmachine in some respects, but that doesn't mean they aren't just as good.

Not at all. Don't get me wrong, I love my Retribution army but they are decidedly lacking in certain areas. Whilst both Hypnos and Disco are good Jacks they're not on the same level as Big B or Avatar, which is what many Ret players are hankering for. Pop over to the Retribution section of the PP forums, this thread highlights what Ret is missing IMO.

[HRM]

@Grimtuff - Where you honestly expecting them to bring out a new faction that matched the already developed factions right off the bat?

I honestly don't know why this couldn't happen. Just stop developing everything else till the new guys are up to snuff, then release the whole faction at once.

[commanddarksun]

IMHO they should have worked a bit more on the ret tbh if they get redone with new book etc I will probably do them as a faction. its good they got a battle engine as well as new plastic kits. if there was that much wrong with them, then PP would do something about it as they do on the most part balance their games. Btw how I read their fluff(i havnt read all of it by a long shot) but they dont seem to have the will to build big (big b) due to strike forces, the guidence or a God or Dragon or the advanced electrical tech(thunderhead). they are getting a colossal which I hope brings a bit more to the table of an unusal and fluid facton. Sorry I play zealous nutters and dragonspawn you see my point of view.

[Falkman]

Cryx got art, Menoth got art and the card for theirs,Ret got 3d animations

Retribution are also the Only WMH faction that doesnt have some sort of Battlebox(Minions and Mercs arent their own faction reaaly so they are exempt)!

As far as I saw there was no card for the Menoth colossal, only the artwork.
And being shown the 3D animation is worth a lot more than some artwork, since that's basically getting to see exactly how the model will actually look.
Ret doesn't have a battle box because they don't have any plastic light jacks.

[Kalandros]

I hate how almost everyone is switching to a Hordes Faction and just fill up on Heavy beasts.
I find the Fury mechanics too forgiving and too overpowering compared to the Focus system.

I also hate the incredible amount of Legion players. In a 5 rounds SR2011, I faced THREE Legion players, one Gator and one Menoth (I am Menoth). It was an awful set of matchups ]: no flavor. And Legion is also too forgiving as a faction - ignore stealth, concealment and whatever else - plus some ways to ignore cover I think. Sigh.

[Sunshine and Night]

As far as I saw there was no card for the Menoth colossal, only the artwork.
And being shown the 3D animation is worth a lot more than some artwork, since that's basically getting to see exactly how the model will actually look.
Ret doesn't have a battle box because they don't have any plastic light jacks.

An honest mistake, I thought that was Menoths, not Mercs!

[Jerrus]

Parts of thier model range does feel quite dated.
And Hordes does seem to have a little advantage due to the Fury mechanic.

The Caster kill was irritating at first, but now I like it. It gives all armies a weakness and it gives you the chance to turn an impending defeat into a victory.

But I am probably quite the Warmahordes fanboy

[Seabo]

@the OP
Really? Did you actually expect a fair and objective discussion? Come on lol

All you've done is create another pointless bitchfest for people to trash an extremely unique and interesting game system. They even have a faction for all these whiners.....Trolls
Not going to single any specific people out but come on....comparing to 40k? Who freaking cares!!!!
2 completely different game mechanics with barely anything in common. I love 40k, Fantasy as well, but Warmachine just adds a different twist to things.
But then all the whining and complaining about have and have not factions and overpowered stuff. I will admit I have gotten a whee bit uppity when facing some rather evil Legion spams but most of this thread is just ridiculous...*sigh*
Fair and objective discussion my **** . MODs do a favor and close this crud lol.

[Hourglass]

But Ret are considered by many (myself included) to be an "incomplete" faction, esp. when compared to the other factions. Their book was the first experiment with the Tier lists. Most of the Ret Tiers are frankly "meh" and need redoing to add a little oommph to them.

Looking at the other factions we have: No Epics, No medium or large based casters (hell, we need more Casters full stop. Specifically a Jack Caster. Vyros is not one.), No silly big Character Jack like Big B or Thunderhead, we need more Jacks in general, more UA's, more units to choose from (though this will hopefully be remedied as House Vyre units are mentioned in Ossy's Tier).

Ret seem to have been neglected a little since their initial release as their amount of releases have been the same as everyone elses, where their book should have contained more units than it did otherwise if PP released more Ret units in the latest expansion than the other factions then people would moan they're getting unfair attention. Go figure...

No quarter 40 epic vyros horselord. Ret will get a whole new bag come the next book

[Deadnight]

@grimtuff, regarding ret epics, it would make absolutely no sense to have them. to be blunt, they have no rights to it. Not yet at least! to become epic, a character must face some singular transforming event in the fluff to fuel their epicness. irusk and northguard. stryker and sul. vlad becoming the old witches dark champion.

the retribution of scyrah, in fairness until recently were a handful of guerrila groups chucking stealthy anti-magic crossbow bolts at mages from the shadows. its only in the last few years that theyve even begun mobilising and theyve yet to fight on the scale of cygnar and khador. all that will change. dont worry. with the skrone planning on invading ios, there is a huge chance for an escalation in conflict, and the retribution warmachine to swing into full production. I have no doubts that theyll get their first epics when the skorne start knocking at the gates... plus when this happens, and the rest of the iosan houses are forced to get involved, im sure youll see your big based jacks.

[Necromancy Black]

I hate the lack of plastics. GW plastics are simply fantastic, better then the metal and resin stuff PP have.

However, I absolutely love the caster focus of this game. It's what keeps me into this game, and the feat mechanic is just brilliant. Also, the whole go for the throat play style where a feat, several spells and a couple of charges can end what looked like a tight game instantly is great. This isn't a game were your in until the last unit goes down, it's a game where you're never truly out until your caster dies. And sure, you can try and protect that weak point, or you cna play like you got a pair, go all in and if it fails, oh well. Set up again for the next game and see what happens next time around. Absolutely love it.