<< Dark Mechanicus >>

[Puffin Magician]

2ed Orky gear... = lots of random effects.

I was pretty much thinking of the 2nd Edition Ork Codex when I thought of some of these things, yes.

Hmmm...
How would the scatter dice work with weapons that don't have a blast marker? Would you place a small coin, or would you simply assign hits to the next unit in that general direction?

I didn't think that far ahead yet, but it wasn't a simple "scatter" roll like how Ordnance is affected. I'll use an example to explain because it's still rather early in the morning.

The Tactical Squad shoots at the Warp Daemons, however they create a warp bubble to deflect the shots. The bubble is created within a range [whatever that may be], and the scatter die is rolled. The shots from the Tactical squad are now bent in that direction, to the extent of their maximum range [even if the Daemons were, say, 38" from the Tactical Marines, a deflected Missile Launcher shot would fire 48"], unless it hits a unit/terrain first. The shot would then affect whatever it hits as normal shooting rules, although affecting friend or foe.

Perhaps the warp bubble could even be created to defend units that aren't the Daemons themselves.

[x-esiv-4c]

I think that on a 5 or 6, possessing the tank, is quite overpowered and its treading on areas that 40k hasn't quite been. I'm not saying its a bad idea, if the majority likes it then that will be done.

The warp bubble, quite a nice idea...unique! Would be interesting to see how that plays in a game.

To break this project down a little I would like us to seperate into smaller groups and each focus on a segement of the DM, a few of us take Fleshcraft, warpcraft etc etc. We talk amoungst ourselves to design a unit and then submit it to the group for approval. I think doing things this way will speed up the process. Please post what field you would like to work in.

Oh and Crashbang, please feel free to update the Xenarch codex.

[x-esiv-4c]

To ground things a little, perhaps the focal troop choice, the servitors could be taken by all disciplines and just pay extra points for upgrades into the 'Crafts'

[Deathorglory]

i agree that the possessed thing is overpowered. also FoU i didn't say all chaos magos were mad just a lot of them. finally we definately have to have a unit in crahsbangs army list he put up that is like normal troops, but massively augmented, or rather than it being another choice have various upgrades for an already existing unit

[Flame of Udun]

FoU i didn't say all chaos magos were mad just a lot of them.

sorry chap, I didn't mean to sound snotty, I am just a disliker of mad evil genius syndrome. It just feels horribly stereotypical.

To ground things a little, perhaps the focal troop choice, the servitors could be taken by all disciplines and just pay extra points for upgrades into the 'Crafts'

I think that sounds like a top notch idea

RE: daemon cannon idea. Any suggestions on powering down the idea? Of course I'd like to see the concept made rules worthy and don't see why we should fear to tread in to new areas but it's up to you guys at the end of the day.

RE: Warp bubble. If these are daemons in the conventional sense of warp spawned units i.e. Daemonettes, etc why would they have this new ability when others don't? I like the idea but just playing devils advocate as I can see opponents kicking off when their bloodletters can't have it. I could see it as an upgrade for warpcraft characters and units though.

[crashbang]

splitting into groups idea: im not quite sure we could pull it off without 3 more topics or a whole new small forum. we could split our concentrations tho

on data daemons, corrupting a vehicle like that could be nasty. but i have an idea. the more there are the more nerve dice they generate, enabling them to use them in a fantasy magic like way. if they failed, ones head would explode what u think?

and thanks for permit x, i promise not to screw it up

[Captain Ardias]

What will fleshcraft consist of? Biological weapons,genetic experiments,fusions of machine and flesh?

Also, what about a unit type with abilities similar to the obliterators?

[EarthScorpion]

Your ideas are, frankly, facinating. Logical, well though-out and wonderfully morally grey (or at least the potential to be). Any possiblity of joining?

[Deathorglory]

certainly, although it is not really up to me.....*hands over stand to x-esiv-4c*

[x-esiv-4c]

Your ideas are, frankly, facinating. Logical, well though-out and wonderfully morally grey (or at least the potential to be). Any possiblity of joining?

Please feel free to join!

As for group dynamics, work on a unit or set of units within the PM realms and then post something up, it'll stop the board from getting too heavily bogged.

Suggestions:

Fleshcraft: Doom style "mancubus", Biophants ( wierd biological tank things?) etc

WarpCraft: Data-daemons, daemonic automatons?

Forgecraft: Daemon-launcher/howizter/thing, anything mechanical and monsterous, perhaps along the same lines as a deflier.

The "DM" allow us to really go wild and stay within the nature of the material.

[Kensai X]

Well said like that forgecraft and warpcraft sound a little to similar.... I think the forgecraft should deal with experimental weapons not sanctioned by the AM and the "technosorcery" of the other xenos races.

An idea I have for warpcraft, perhaps you could put doctrine points into either utilize or worship chaos... The more points you put into utilize chaos the more powerful weapons you have access to, but their is large risk as the Chaos gods will try to stop, if you put some points into worship they'll be less powerful, but more reliable and depending how you mix them is the level of overall power in comparirison to reliability. Also some crazy gun ideas came to my head for a nurgleesque gun the looks like the old crank gatling guns, but with like a giant food chopper or a fruit juicer on to and filled with captured nurglings to act as ammo....

[Puffin Magician]

RE: Warp bubble. If these are daemons... why would they have this new ability when others don't? I can see opponents kicking off when their bloodletters can't have it.

Well for one, players using Daemonettes don't complain how they don't have Brass Armour or Doombolt. Data Daemons are a whole other "class" as if they represent a seperate Chaos God [and as such have different abilities].

I could see it as an upgrade for warpcraft characters and units though.

I was thinking it would be Warpcraft-specific, yes.

[Flame of Udun]

Well for one, players using Daemonettes don't complain how they don't have Brass Armour or Doombolt.

Fair enough, let it ride then
[EDIT]
I reckon the daemon launcher should be warpcraft not forge craft. Forge craft should be IMHO xeno tech and advanced or complex weaponry.

Data Daemons are a whole other "class" as if they represent a seperate Chaos God [and as such have different abilities]

Hmmm, possible presence of a warp spawned Machine demi god?

[EDIT 2]
Also I think we should consider what ties the Iron Wariors may have with certain Dark mechanicus.

[Bmaxwell]

Im thinking it would be some what like they are respected but at the same time hated.

[IncubiLord]

Fleshcraft: Doom style "mancubus", Biophants ( wierd biological tank things?) etc

WarpCraft: Data-daemons, daemonic automatons?

Forgecraft: Daemon-launcher/howizter/thing, anything mechanical and monsterous, perhaps along the same lines as a deflier.

As others have said, the Forgecraft should be reserved for Xenos tech and forbidden designs and the Daemons should be in Warpcraft.

I'd say that all the branches have access to the bionics and tech you'd expect in Imperial forces, but a Forgecraft Magos would have Ork Bioniks, Killa Kans, grav tanks, jetbikes, and other equipment taken from aliens - all twisted into a techno-genius army of his own.

Meanwhile the Warpcraft Magos gets to wander around with possessed, daemon engines, daemon ammo, grafted daemonic limbs, infusions of daemonic essence, and so forth.

Then the Fleshcraft Magos shows up with his grafted Ork arm, Ogryn servitors, Stitched Abominations (just a bunch of varying alien parts sewn together), "trained" tyranid symbiotic weapons, Great Knarlocs and Squiggoth that have been overhauled with bionics and implanted venom sacs/stingers/etc, and maybe a variety of implants like the Tyranid biomorphs.

Maybe, to build off the doctrines concept, we could allow you to pick restricted troops/equipment to fill the slots which determine your points limits. This could really make things interesting, but each technocraft would need a fairly large batch of restricted troops and gear.

[Captain Ardias]

As others have said, the Forgecraft should be reserved for Xenos tech and forbidden designs and the Daemons should be in Warpcraft.

I'd say that all the branches have access to the bionics and tech you'd expect in Imperial forces, but a Forgecraft Magos would have Ork Bioniks, Killa Kans, grav tanks, jetbikes, and other equipment taken from aliens - all twisted into a techno-genius army of his own.

Meanwhile the Warpcraft Magos gets to wander around with possessed, daemon engines, daemon ammo, grafted daemonic limbs, infusions of daemonic essence, and so forth.

Then the Fleshcraft Magos shows up with his grafted Ork arm, Ogryn servitors, Stitched Abominations (just a bunch of varying alien parts sewn together), "trained" tyranid symbiotic weapons, Great Knarlocs and Squiggoth that have been overhauled with bionics and implanted venom sacs/stingers/etc, and maybe a variety of implants like the Tyranid biomorphs.

Maybe, to build off the doctrines concept, we could allow you to pick restricted troops/equipment to fill the slots which determine your points limits. This could really make things interesting, but each technocraft would need a fairly large batch of restricted troops and gear.

I think that sounds great , but wouldnt fleshcraft also include things that's neither xeno nor human, just a abomination grown in a tube of some sorts. I think a fleshcraft magos would be something similar to Throt the unclean, patching together every living thing he can get his hands on, Into all kind of mad creatures.

[Flame of Udun]

Stitched Abominations

That just sounds soooo gribbly. I can just picture these horrible beasts made from loads of hands and mouths, feet, claws and eyes all sewn together kind of randomly. Like the magos decided to do something with all the leftover bits. Also has anybody seen the inquisitor scale ogryn in the inquisitor rule book. It's made with an old giant and has a dreadnought ass cannon for one arm.

[x-esiv-4c]

I've been thinking some.

What we seem to be doing here is actually building 3 different codexes. The "Book of chaos" allows you to use god-specific legions by changing FOC requirements and allowing a few new special rules and wargear. I may have mislead the group in splitting the "crafts" into designations so far removed from each-other. I like the idea of different crafts but I don't think they should deviate from eachother to the point where you can have an entire "Forgecraft" army made up for forgecraft only units. I think it would be better to have a standard DM list and applied a craft list onto it.

I've also been thinking about how to deligniate the warpcraft and forgecraft because both are very similar IMHO, do people want to stick with 3 or go back down to 2 crafts?

perhaps units can have craft upgrades, lets say you have a daemon launcher right? Ok, well with a forgecraft/warpcraft upgrade it will fire some kind of projectile comparable to a battlecannon but with a fleshcraft upgrade it would fire some kind of bio-monster that engages its targets in CC assuming it survives impact ( just an example ).

Thoughts?

[Flame of Udun]

So have forgecraft as the main army style (creatively uninhibited ad mech) then have fleshcraft and warpcraft as upgrades along with unique units? That sounds like a plan to me.

[x-esiv-4c]

Yeah thats what I was thinking FoU, otherwise it looks like it'll get too fragmented.

So lets look at our first task: "Basic troop"

It has been put forth that they should be some kind of servitor? Sounds ok to me. I would like to suggest that they use those weapons that can be "overcharged" leading to an increase in strength whilst becoming subject to the "gets hot" ruling.

We has also made mention of having a "heavy weapons" servitor included. Perhaps we can make it more interesting, say that the heavy wep servitor acts as a focus of the squad. For example: 2 maybe 3 wounds, high toughness and something like 2 twinlinked Heavy-stubbers or twin-linked HB'ers.

Naturally the squad can be upgraded with fleshcraft or warpcraft abilities for a points cost.
Perhaps a fleshcraft unit would loose their weapons but instead be subject to
"fleet of foot" and have more attacks or something. Warp-craft abilities would ...well....I don't know perhaps allow the heavy weapon servitor to be equipped with a Kai-gun or something.