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Thread: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

  1. #1
    Commander knightime98's Avatar
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    Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    Here are some examples of what I think the 8th Edition Army book should include,

    The Dwarves need a new 8th edition book...

    Some common fixes that need to be badly addressed

    - General Army Rules - Relentless (good), -1 move to flee, pursue (fluffy), army wide +2 to dispel as it stands now (suggest to make this an additional +1 for each runesmith/ +2 for each rune lord). The point for the +1/+2 adding is so that the Dwarves can keep up with all the level 4 casters.

    - Flame Cannon (needs to be able to add runes, add range, and reduced cost by 20 points)

    - Organ Gun (needs fixed, auto hits will vanish) - Points reduced (not nearly as effective with rolling to hit) and will probably be the least taken warmachine by far in 8th after the severe nerf, needs to be able to add runes.

    - Anvil of Doom - Needs a One Thousand percent complete REWRITE. Should not require a Runesmith or Runelord, it should simply JUST WORK and not blow up (just like Engine of the Gods (just works), Cauldron of Blood (just works), Warshrine (just works) and so on. The points here are that the fluff of Dwarven engineering is that they are the best craftsmen in the Warhammer World.... yet they are the only army that has a 400+ toy that Blows up?????? Scratches head reads fluff and finds that the rules don't even come close to the fluff read in the army book...... Some buffs that may or should be included could be numerous and varied widely to include .. ASF, magical attacks (for the ethereal nasties), Ward Save, +1 Attack, Added charge range for 1 unit during declared charges phase, and any number of other ideas. The base line of adding a Dispel Die may stay or adding a bonus to dispelling like a cumulative +2,3,4 ?? After all, Dwarves are supposed to be the dispelling anti magic kings of the warhammer world. Points ~120, note that the buffs mentioned would only be 1 of the x,y,z mentioned with maybe the dispel bonus or Dispel die being stagnant. The Dwarf player would choose one buff of 3 provided like the cauldron of blood.

    - Runic Standards/Weapons need changing to account for flaming attacks, magic attacks, multiple attacks to accommodate 8th edition rules (i.e. Hellpit, Hydra, etc...)

    - Runic Talismans - I'd really, really entertain the idea of a 50 pt rune that can dispel an IF spell. For one reason really, anyone that wants to force a spell on a Dwarf Army is going to throw the 6 dice and pray for the IF. The Dwarves who are supposed to be the most anti-magic army are helpless where this is supposed to be their strength. It would be fluffy and can be implemented.

    - Slayers - need serious built in buffs like flagellants of the Empire. They need to mirror flagellants but in their own style. Perhaps a built in 5+ Ward Save in combat/ 4+ Ward vs shooting/magic with Hatred first round. This makes them survivable enough to get to combat and then do some damage...

    - Hammers/Iron Breakers - need a 2-3 point reduction. Why would a hammerer cost the same as a Grave Guard model. But does not cause fear, does not have killing blow, is subject to fear, terror, panic, and cost more points ??? Or they need to make Gromril armor standard with a 1pt decrease. Need to be able to take a runic standard that fits in line with the 8th edition basic rule book banners (Dwarves are mutually excluded from taking any magic items/banners from the BRB thus making them inferior).

    -Thunderers / Quarrellers - are over pointed by 2 points... 14/11 points for one shot ??? or it would be even better if they got the move and shoot. I'd even like the idea of being able to swivel/pivot on the spot and shoot. Dark Elf crossbows get to move and shoot why can't Quarrellers ? Same type unit?

    - Gyrocopter - I think this is fine as is... perhaps, a -2 armor save.

    - Goblin Hewer - Bring this model back !!! The rules were awesome and I have one to field.

    - Oath Stones are outdated - I have no suggestions for fixes as just standing in one spot to be magic missiled and shot at doesn't make any sense to me. The only idea that even remotely makes sense is if you place the oath stone as a challenge. If the challenge is won, then the stone may be picked up and can move as normal again. Not even sure what benefit it could or should add under these circumstances. I'm simply at a loss here. The fluff and the idea are sound, however, implementing rules for it is a tough proposition. Any ideas you may have would really be entertained by myself.

    Note that this is not wish listing but rather some ideas of what I would expect the Dwarven book to include or have adjusted at a minimum to bring them in line with 8th edition rules and other army books.

    An example would be, spirit host attacks a unit of Dwarven warriors. The Dwarven warriors or any unit of Dwarves can not have the ability in any way, shape, manner or form, to have Magical attacks. The only option is for a Dwarven Character to be in the unit with a runic weapon (very poor game design). The Dwarves have no reasonable viable response. Some would say, shoot them with your runic war machines (retort: so, that the bolt thrower can do up to 3 wounds IF it hits ??, same for the Cannon but for d6 wounds on ONE model ??? - this is not a viable option either).

    So, this is my take on the Dwarves and the fixes that need to take place. We'll see what happens if/and/or when the 8th edition book is released. I will not be holding my breath until then.....

    So, what are your thoughts on what you would expect to see in the 8th edition book? I'd like to hear other player's opinions.
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    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    Dwarfen warrior units with hw+s should be able to form a shield wall making them far more durable than they are in there current form.

    A unit of dwarf warriors can form a shield wall/square adding +1 or 2 to there armour save in addition to removing flanks. The unit is also unable to move in the next turn.

    it makes them a viable choice to watch and guard my flanks without me having to invest in massive hordes.

    gromril should be 3+ (are dwarfs the best armourers in the world or not)
    Points reduction for many of the troops, gw reduced for special in line with gg
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  3. #3

    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    Here are some examples of what I think the 8th Edition Army book should include,

    The Dwarves need a new 8th edition book...

    Some common fixes that need to be badly addressed

    - General Army Rules - Relentless (good), -1 move to flee, pursue (fluffy), army wide +2 to dispel as it stands now (suggest to make this an additional +1 for each runesmith/ +2 for each rune lord). The point for the +1/+2 adding is so that the Dwarves can keep up with all the level 4 casters.
    I'd rather see MR1 on the whole army. MR2 on rune priests/MR3 on rune lords w upgrade items that let them add to dispel attempt rather than innate. I would also give Dwarven thanes/kings the stubborn rule

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    - Flame Cannon (needs to be able to add runes, add range, and reduced cost by 20 points)
    - Organ Gun (needs fixed, auto hits will vanish) - Points reduced (not nearly as effective with rolling to hit) and will probably be the least taken warmachine by far in 8th after the severe nerf, needs to be able to add runes.
    These items will surely get corrected to be in line with this edition. I think runes will be machine upgrades.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    - Anvil of Doom - Needs a One Thousand percent complete REWRITE. Should not require a Runesmith or Runelord, it should simply JUST WORK and not blow up (just like Engine of the Gods (just works), Cauldron of Blood (just works), Warshrine (just works) and so on. The points here are that the fluff of Dwarven engineering is that they are the best craftsmen in the Warhammer World.... yet they are the only army that has a 400+ toy that Blows up?????? Scratches head reads fluff and finds that the rules don't even come close to the fluff read in the army book...... Some buffs that may or should be included could be numerous and varied widely to include .. ASF, magical attacks (for the ethereal nasties), Ward Save, +1 Attack, Added charge range for 1 unit during declared charges phase, and any number of other ideas. The base line of adding a Dispel Die may stay or adding a bonus to dispelling like a cumulative +2,3,4 ?? After all, Dwarves are supposed to be the dispelling anti magic kings of the warhammer world. Points ~120, note that the buffs mentioned would only be 1 of the x,y,z mentioned with maybe the dispel bonus or Dispel die being stagnant. The Dwarf player would choose one buff of 3 provided like the cauldron of blood.
    Disagree. It's not a warshrine (though to be fair, I wouldn't mind the dwarves getting a warshrine) it is an oversized wand or amulet. Let me explain. It is an item that harnesses the winds of magic and redirects them to fueling a spell effect. At best this warpiece should work like the casket of souls. BTW dwarves are not the masters of dispelling magic, that s the High Elves. Dwarves are teh masters of enduring against magic, reread your fluff (all the spells get off against them).

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    - Runic Standards/Weapons need changing to account for flaming attacks, magic attacks, multiple attacks to accommodate 8th edition rules (i.e. Hellpit, Hydra, etc...)
    I'm sure this will happen

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    - Runic Talismans - I'd really, really entertain the idea of a 50 pt rune that can dispel an IF spell. For one reason really, anyone that wants to force a spell on a Dwarf Army is going to throw the 6 dice and pray for the IF. The Dwarves who are supposed to be the most anti-magic army are helpless where this is supposed to be their strength. It would be fluffy and can be implemented.
    Again, see above. I would rather they get more saves against magic, or ways of lessening effects, but they shouldn't dispel that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    - Slayers - need serious built in buffs like flagellants of the Empire. They need to mirror flagellants but in their own style. Perhaps a built in 5+ Ward Save in combat/ 4+ Ward vs shooting/magic with Hatred first round. This makes them survivable enough to get to combat and then do some damage...
    I feel what the slayers need, and what they will get will be this. A slayer unit in each category; Core, Special, and Rare. I am willing to bet that they get swiftstride and wound on a 4+. I bet the special will get killing blow and the rare unit will get heroic killing blow. The slayers don't need ward saves, they need easier access to getting into close combat. Ward saves on teh slayer characters would be fine though.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    - Hammers/Iron Breakers - need a 2-3 point reduction. Why would a hammerer cost the same as a Grave Guard model. But does not cause fear, does not have killing blow, is subject to fear, terror, panic, and cost more points ??? Or they need to make Gromril armor standard with a 1pt decrease. Need to be able to take a runic standard that fits in line with the 8th edition basic rule book banners (Dwarves are mutually excluded from taking any magic items/banners from the BRB thus making them inferior).
    You're thinking too small here(the only place so far). I bet the entire Dwarf army goes up one point in saves all around, without a point increase. I think the stats may change a little, but other than that we ll see more armor for the whole army.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    -Thunderers / Quarrellers - are over pointed by 2 points... 14/11 points for one shot ??? or it would be even better if they got the move and shoot. I'd even like the idea of being able to swivel/pivot on the spot and shoot. Dark Elf crossbows get to move and shoot why can't Quarrellers ? Same type unit?
    They are not the same unit type. DE xbows are of a quick shooting design which loses power in exchange for rate of fire. This would not be a Dwarf design. The Dwarf design would emphasize accuracy and power, but never firing speed. They cost what they do because they have great armor, high toughness, and great accuracy for the thunderers. They can beat most other missle troops in archery duels all day long. remember what you're asking for, and be reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    - Goblin Hewer - Bring this model back !!! The rules were awesome and I have one to field.
    Yes. So awesome that it had to be banned. You seem to lack an idea for balance in an armybook. Maybe the machine should come back, but hit with a nerf bat. Twice.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    - Oath Stones are outdated - I have no suggestions for fixes as just standing in one spot to be magic missiled and shot at doesn't make any sense to me. The only idea that even remotely makes sense is if you place the oath stone as a challenge. If the challenge is won, then the stone may be picked up and can move as normal again. Not even sure what benefit it could or should add under these circumstances. I'm simply at a loss here. The fluff and the idea are sound, however, implementing rules for it is a tough proposition. Any ideas you may have would really be entertained by myself.
    ...wow. Do you read any of the Dwarf fluff or just the parts you like? It totally makes sense given the fluff of the dwarves we have so far. It should be updated for the new edition, like everything else in the book, but not the way you think. It should simply make the dwarf unit protecting it unbreakable and let them taunt an enemy every turn. If the enemy fails the roll, then they must charge teh Dwarves. Simple. Useful. Fluffy.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    Note that this is not wish listing but rather some ideas of what I would expect the Dwarven book to include or have adjusted at a minimum to bring them in line with 8th edition rules and other army books.
    You might as well be wishlisting. You will not have all these demands met.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    An example would be, spirit host attacks a unit of Dwarven warriors. The Dwarven warriors or any unit of Dwarves can not have the ability in any way, shape, manner or form, to have Magical attacks. The only option is for a Dwarven Character to be in the unit with a runic weapon (very poor game design). The Dwarves have no reasonable viable response. Some would say, shoot them with your runic war machines (retort: so, that the bolt thrower can do up to 3 wounds IF it hits ??, same for the Cannon but for d6 wounds on ONE model ??? - this is not a viable option either).
    You mean like everyone else in the game? They take a hero with a magic weapon. You need to brush up on other army books man, not ask for everything and a pony just to make sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    So, this is my take on the Dwarves and the fixes that need to take place. We'll see what happens if/and/or when the 8th edition book is released. I will not be holding my breath until then.....

    So, what are your thoughts on what you would expect to see in the 8th edition book? I'd like to hear other player's opinions.
    I think your list of demands is half insane.

    If you want more realistic changes, read the main rules and the new armybooks produced for 8th ed. You ll see that they all get a lot more units, ones that have been mentioned in the big red book. Based on that, they will get a limited magic item list (for better or worse), Ancestor God steam engines, an airship, and new hero/army special rules.

    If I were to make a suggestion, I would give dwarf warriors the shield wall special power. Which would give them +1 armor save against shooting if the unit didn't move in it's movement phase and succeeded in a leadership check.
    Hero Changes that I mention above.
    Runic Items that give bound spells to Rune priest/lords
    Increase in armor, as I mention above.
    Return of sapper units and Dwarven mountaineers
    Slayer heroes and lords gain the ability to join units, and also lead teh army if there is no other character with equal or higher leadership

  4. #4
    Commander wizbix's Avatar
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    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Petey View Post
    If I were to make a suggestion, I would give dwarf warriors the shield wall special power. Which would give them +1 armor save against shooting if the unit didn't move in it's movement phase and succeeded in a leadership check.
    Hero Changes that I mention above.
    Runic Items that give bound spells to Rune priest/lords
    Increase in armor, as I mention above.
    Return of sapper units and Dwarven mountaineers
    Slayer heroes and lords gain the ability to join units, and also lead teh army if there is no other character with equal or higher leadership
    A much more realsitic and plausable set of suggestions than those of the OP, as is the air ship and beer running steam tank like contraption too. This would actually inspire me to continue my dwarf army which has been sat on my sehlf for the past couple of years.
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    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    I agree with the OP as far as the Dispelling goes. As long as Dwarves don't get any magic (whatsoever) they simply ought to be able to put up a Great Wall of Magic Defense. So I wouldn't want any big changes there - just a revamp of Empire Priests so that the Dwarves are really unique in this regard.

    The OP exaggerates how overcosted those infantry units are. Now, they certainly are too expensive but only about half as much as the OP suggests.

    Regarding Quarrellers/Thunderers I believe rather than making them cheaper they should earn their reputation as Dwarven Marksmen, by for example getting a serious buff to their Ballistic Skill. A pretty cool new unit Dwarves could get would be a Marksman type of Elite Quarreller unit with better rifles (range and strength) and perhaps the Champ would be allowed to snipe characters or something like that. That'd be pretty cool.

    Organ Gun will be re-written. Flame Cannon too if GW expects to sell the model to anyone. Anvil of Doom needs revising (naturally!) but take it easy there man.. hehe If it just works there's no way you could have the current effects.

    Slayers need something. Many ways to fix them really. Ideally something that makes Troll/Giant/Dragon/Daemon-Slayers particularly nasty against MI/Monsters/Deamons.

    I certainly hope Dwarves keep the rune system. It's such a blast facing an army that doesn't use common magic items.
    Another thing I hope for is that Shieldbearers become a normal Lord-upgrade. That Special Character "Throne" could then move to becoming "General Only".

    Steampropelled balloon-ship would be cool. Quite possibly a mess to paint and play with. But cool nonetheless.

    Hopefully there'll be no Monstrous Infantry, Cavalry, or Monstrous Cavalry, because whatever that would be it'd be bs. In my humble opinion.

    I agree that armor might go up a notch army-wide instead of costs going down armywide. It's an equal alternative really.

    Overall, I just hope GW keeps with the heavy tradition of this old-time Army and refrains from following dogma about every 8th Army getting This and That. Dwarves are already quite all right in 8th Ed, they need some brushing around the edges and some new [suitable!!] toys/units for Dwarf-players to drool over and that's about it.
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    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    Querrellers and Thunderers are perfectly costed. An Empire crossbowman cost 8 pts and a dwarf cost what 11pts? 3 pts. for the extra leadership and toughness seems a great buy to me. Same with Thunderers compared to handgunners with the +1 to hit and all. You'll notice that Empire and dwarves are the only armies with handguns and crossbows. Empire book is probably out soon and we'll see what their units cost. I dont expect them to get cheaper, so why would the dwarves get cheaper?

    Dwarven elites arent overcosted. They are just a bit boring. In the Hammerer vs. Grave Guard example OP doesnt factor in crumble or the improved WS5, nor that Stubborn on LD 9/10 is basically unbreakable too. Nothing tehre to suggest the hammerer is worse off.

    Most of what you ask is unreasonable.

    Runesmiths and elite units need more interesting abilities and a few new units (hopefully including the airship) is needed, but beyond that I doubt we'll see many changes in the list itself. Given the VC book I think dwarves will still have a goodly number of runes

  7. #7

    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    Need to make shield warriors more competitive compared to gw warriors. Solution make warriors 1 pt cheaper, but pay 3 pts for the gw.

    Also need to make Longbeards viable compared to Hammerers. Old Grumblers rule needs replacing.
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    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    @ Wesser:
    Oh I think we could all live with Dwarf infantry costing a point less in general..
    That's not to say you couldn't do more creative things to make them more interesting, certainly agreeing with you there.
    Regarding the upcoming Empire Book I don't exactly expect things to get cheaper, but I certainly hope Statetroops will get the option of spears "for free" just like Skellies.

    Let's stop bashing the OP anyway. Yes it was alot of "buff-buff-buff!" but I really envy such innocense! Players caring about their armies as though they were living things is what makes this hobby great!

    I'm that way about Daemons btw. *lol*
    Quote Originally Posted by The bearded one View Post
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    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    Some common fixes that need to be badly addressed

    - Runic Standards/Weapons need changing to account for flaming attacks, magic attacks, multiple attacks to accommodate 8th edition rules (i.e. Hellpit, Hydra, etc...)
    You can already pay 5pts to make a weapon flaming, so that's not an issue.
    Same for any war machine.
    You merely lack the ability to have a flaming banner, also Hellpits and Aboms are only in 2 armies, nothing else gets regenerating beasts so it's hardly a giant issue, given that you have characters and war machines with flaming attacks so easily.
    I agree that there needs to be more variety and buffs in the form of magical standards though.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    - Runic Talismans - I'd really, really entertain the idea of a 50 pt rune that can dispel an IF spell. For one reason really, anyone that wants to force a spell on a Dwarf Army is going to throw the 6 dice and pray for the IF. The Dwarves who are supposed to be the most anti-magic army are helpless where this is supposed to be their strength. It would be fluffy and can be implemented.
    Its not fluffy at all and just reeks of wanting to be utterly unhurtable with magic.
    A better rune would be one that makes the bearer immune to the effects of magical spells, so rather than introducing something nobody else gets in the form of being able to dispel irresistable force, you are using an effect that already exists (high elf banner of the world dragon) which isn't a game beaker.


    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    - Hammers/Iron Breakers - need a 2-3 point reduction. Why would a hammerer cost the same as a Grave Guard model. But does not cause fear, does not have killing blow, is subject to fear, terror, panic, and cost more points ??? Or they need to make Gromril armor standard with a 1pt decrease. Need to be able to take a runic standard that fits in line with the 8th edition basic rule book banners (Dwarves are mutually excluded from taking any magic items/banners from the BRB thus making them inferior).
    Better weaponskill, can always march, stubborn and doesn't crumble.
    Lots of reasons they cost the same as a grave guard.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    -Thunderers / Quarrellers - are over pointed by 2 points... 14/11 points for one shot ??? or it would be even better if they got the move and shoot. I'd even like the idea of being able to swivel/pivot on the spot and shoot. Dark Elf crossbows get to move and shoot why can't Quarrellers ? Same type unit?
    You also get toughness 4, leadership 9 and a longer range/harder hitting weapon (also more accurate at short range in the case of the thunderer).
    Also, you aren't carrying move-and-fire weapons and nobody gets to fire those on the move.


    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    An example would be, spirit host attacks a unit of Dwarven warriors. The Dwarven warriors or any unit of Dwarves can not have the ability in any way, shape, manner or form, to have Magical attacks.
    So? You have lots of ways of causing magical damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    The only option is for a Dwarven Character to be in the unit with a runic weapon (very poor game design).
    I fail to see how this is poor game design given how few ethereal units you are going to face, especially give you have other access to magical attacks...like the character with runic weapons that you are dismissing as no good for some bizarre reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    The Dwarves have no reasonable viable response. Some would say, shoot them with your runic war machines (retort: so, that the bolt thrower can do up to 3 wounds IF it hits ??, same for the Cannon but for d6 wounds on ONE model ??? - this is not a viable option either).
    I don't see why it isn't a viable option.
    Shoot at it from around 48" away with a weapon that wounds it on a 2+, does multiple wounds and can hit more than one model at a time in the unit.
    How is that not a viable option?
    It works just fine against hydra's and the like, why wouldn't it work vs an ethereal unit like spirit host?

    I think this is the issue with dwarf wishlisting.
    You get very hung up on not getting to cast spells so want to be able to negate all enemy spells all the time.
    You also get very hung up on anything that your army for some reason doesn't have (cav, MI, MC, chariots...why not complain about the lack of these?) and decide you must must must have these things and they are the only method of dealing with a highly specific foe when they are infact not and you have loads of other options.

    Just because you don't want to use something doesn't mean that it isn't an option.

    It would be nice to see the goblin hewer return as a rare choice in some form
    Last edited by theunwantedbeing; 07-02-2012 at 19:03.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    I have read a lot of good points and potential fixes for our army throughout this whole thread. However, the tone that some are using when addressing each other are just absurd. Keep it professional or keep it to yourself.

  11. #11
    To my mind the dwarfs don't need much except some variety and done fluff changes.
    Iron breakers should have a defensive rule like Shield wall - attackers to the front lose charging bonuses if the unit was unengaged. Perhaps an embedded fire thrower in the 2nd rank that effectively gives them a breath attack?
    Slayers need fixing, I think they are too expensive for what they do and veteran slayers (giant, daemon & dragon) should have scaling natural ward and KB to represent their natural resilience and aptitude for killing things.
    I'm going get a lot of hate for this, but why not make runesmiths wizards that only use the runic lore?
    We can still dispel with the rest if them if our runic system stays, but now we will have a chance to use our anvils for a good reason, especially as well probably lose the anvil charge.

    Just to note, I don't want MI big monsters or anything flash just a refresh of one if the oldest armies out there.
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    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    People mentioning slayers with KB and better versions getting HKB seems a bit off, as the whole point of the slayer is to kill monsters and MI/MC, so normal KB doesn't fit with the fluff. I prefer to think of slayer's banding together in small elite units that are able to hold their own.
    Similarly dwarfs shouldn't have MI or MC, they should stick to their heritage, things like mining machines and the airship actualy fit in with their affinity to mechanics and mining.

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    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by DaemonReign View Post
    Organ Gun will be re-written. Flame Cannon too if GW expects to sell the model to anyone. Anvil of Doom needs revising (naturally!) but take it easy there man.. hehe If it just works there's no way you could have the current effects.
    Organ gun is fine, just needs a small points increase.

    Anvil of doom......the ability to once in a turn do D6 S4 hits and half movement or get an extra move on one unit is a perfectly reasonable ability for 175points+ the runelord.

    Quote Originally Posted by Petey View Post
    Yes. So awesome that it had to be banned. You seem to lack an idea for balance in an armybook. Maybe the machine should come back, but hit with a nerf bat. Twice.
    Hmm...D3 S5 hits per rank and 18" range wasnt it? surely that would be a perfect counter to massive slave hordes? Maybe a point increase but it wasnt that OTT

    Quote Originally Posted by Petey View Post
    BTW dwarves are not the masters of dispelling magic, that s the High Elves. Dwarves are teh masters of enduring against magic, reread your fluff (all the spells get off against them).

    ...wow. Do you read any of the Dwarf fluff or just the parts you like? It totally makes sense given the fluff of the dwarves we have so far. It should be updated for the new edition, like everything else in the book, but not the way you think. It should simply make the dwarf unit protecting it unbreakable and let them taunt an enemy every turn. If the enemy fails the roll, then they must charge teh Dwarves. Simple. Useful. Fluffy.
    Dude, relax. Stop being so rude.

    Where does it say the high elves are masters of dispelling? Also, the most recent fluff in the VCs book has dwarf runesmiths compeltely blocking the magic of the necromancers. Dwarfs are resitant to magic but that is represented by their +2 to dispell, the runesmiths and runelords are the ones you suck away the winds of magic.

    The oathstone makeing a thane have to challenge and the unit treat all directions as their front is very fluffy...not being able to move for the rest of the game on the otherhand isnt. Fluffwise it should make them form up into a rock hard circle of shields but they should be able to move once combat is over.

  14. #14

    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    What I've posted on Bugmans many times in the past that would make Slayers more interesting would be if they got the rules they had in Warmaster.

    In Warmaster if a regiment of Slayers was still alive at the end of the game, the opponent got the VP for it.

  15. #15

    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by knightime98 View Post
    - Goblin Hewer - Bring this model back !!! The rules were awesome and I have one to field.
    Yes please.
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  16. #16

    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by The Low King View Post
    Hmm...D3 S5 hits per rank and 18" range wasnt it? surely that would be a perfect counter to massive slave hordes? Maybe a point increase but it wasnt that OTT
    It was a cheap warmachine that did on average 2 s5 hits per rank. It was pretty grim for the environment that it was released in. If it does come back I would like it to be increased in points, and or brought in line with other warmachines.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Low King View Post
    Dude, relax. Stop being so rude.
    I'm sorry, but the OP's original post just got more and more lame as the post went on. At first I just disagreed with him, but as I read the post more closely, I became more annoyed with his suppositions and requests. I felt it was pedantic and poorly thought out. I should have been nicer about it, but my feelings stand.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Low King View Post
    Where does it say the high elves are masters of dispelling? Also, the most recent fluff in the VCs book has dwarf runesmiths compeltely blocking the magic of the necromancers. Dwarfs are resitant to magic but that is represented by their +2 to dispell, the runesmiths and runelords are the ones you suck away the winds of magic.
    High Elf rule book, Every Edition. Big Red Book. Storm of Magic, Page 50 paragraph 1. Tamurkhan, Throne of Chaos. Countless novels.
    The high elf solution to magic is to control it, and to calm it. Hence, their wizards classically gain a bonus to dispel magic attempts. They also get the drain magic spell as part of their racial lore.
    Teh dwarf solution to magic is to endure it, and to overcome its effects. Hence extra dice to dispel it, even if they don't have a runepriest character, as it even states under the reason they get this rule.
    I'm not saying that the Runepriests should not get to dispel as their level implies, but it shouldn't be better than other wizards ability to cast spell. If that was the case, then in the same book they would have stopped Manfred while defending the Elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Low King View Post
    The oathstone makeing a thane have to challenge and the unit treat all directions as their front is very fluffy...not being able to move for the rest of the game on the otherhand isnt. Fluffwise it should make them form up into a rock hard circle of shields but they should be able to move once combat is over.
    The book Oathbreaker. The fluff behind placing an oathstone is saying to the enemy "you will not move me." It is a challenge, and the dwarf lord resolves to hold that spot or die trying. It actually existed in some human cultures as well. It is very fluffy that they don't move after that, because it is literally the fluff. As for rules, it takes away tactical flexibility and your opponent has little reason to attack it; that of course needs to change.

  17. #17

    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by The Low King View Post

    Anvil of doom......the ability to once in a turn do D6 S4 hits and half movement or get an extra move on one unit is a perfectly reasonable ability for 175points+ the runelord.
    Well, you're pretty much guaranteed to lose the "free charge" part of the extra move (now that we've seen what's happened to VDM in the Vampire Lore) and that's really the aspect of that ability that makes it so worthwhile.

  18. #18
    Commander knightime98's Avatar
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    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    Just a few notes to everyone as the OP. First, I have been playing Warhammer since the inception of 6th edition (10 years or so now). Second, I have 7 armies that I play with currently although 2 of them very infrequently (Skaven and High Elves). The remaining 5 include Empire, O+G, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, and Dwarves. So, that is a very short summary of my back ground for Warhammer.

    Next, it was my intention of listing ideas and/or suggestions (As the name of the Thread itself suggests) of what may be done to fix units/items. One particular poster took my original thread to mean it was a 'demand'. The first post is not a demand or a wishlist but rather, my idea of what could be done to make the unit/warmachine/runic item, character and so on better or more viable to play for 8th edition.

    Furthermore, I like the idea of the so-called shield wall in various formats. That is reminiscent of the Romans with the Turtle formation. That is not an idea or thought that ever crossed my mind. An airship or steam powered land rover (like the steam tank) although it is a great concept, I'd rather not have it because the rules for it will be much like the Empire Steam Tank and I would not want to field something that can blow itself up. This is a very sticky point for me. The Dwarves should not have anything that blows itself up. For fluff reasons the master engineers try the items out for centuries (I believe is the term) to prove the machine/device works to their very high standards.

    Moreover, one poster said to make all dwarven armor saves better by one. I think that would fix, again, for fluff reasons a lot of the dwarven point issues. I truly believe as it stands right now that the Dwarves are over costed point wise. One of the main reasons that I believe it, is that Dwarves are sacrificing two phases of a 4 phase game. No magic and reduced movement (no fast cavalry, dogs, Harpies to block, redirect, march block) is severely restricted (two phases). So, that being the case, the remaining two phases of the game (combat and shooting) should not only be good but awesome. This is why I believe the Quarrellers/Thunderers are over pointed. If the Dwarves had a magic phase and the movement were in line with other armies - the points would be about right. However, one poster suggested that a 14 point Thunderer is on par for an 8 point Empire Handgunner. It's nearly a 2 to 1 on points to hit one better. I'd rather have 2 shots at a 4/5 as opposed to one shot on a 3/4. The odds favor the 2 Empire handgunners (with a chance to wound twice).

    So, the point of this particular thread is not to create animosity, threats, name calling, and so on. The point is to come up with creative ideas of how to bring the Dwarves in line with 8th edition rules with good suggestions to do so. One of things that really needs to be completely redone is the Anvil of Doom. One poster missed the point of my idea of the Anvil. Another poster commented about how the 'magic movement' would go away. I agree that the Anvil Rules will be completely thrown out the window, as they should. The only vice that may remain is the adding of dispel dice. I hope that the new version of the Anvil simply works without ANY chance of blowing up. Some of the ideas included things like ONE buff to choose from of 3 (like the cauldron of blood) - which could include ASF, adding one attack, Flaming attacks, perhaps an added d6 to charge range in the beginning of the movement phase to one unit. Once again, these are ideas (not demands). So, take what I have written as such (Ideas). If you have more that you may want to add then do so. However, do not mock, insult, or otherwise put down other's thoughts and ideas when you don't have anything to add to the thread in a creative fashion.

    Lastly, many thanks for the supportive ideas already mentioned. Please continue as I have perused this thread picking out and sorting other players thoughts of what the Dwarves in 8th Edition should be like. Keep the ideas flowing and maybe perhaps if/and/or when the book is released some of these ideas will be incorporated in the 8th Edition rules.
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  19. #19
    Chapter Master The bearded one's Avatar
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    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    I reasonably expect the organ gun to lose it's autohits, though if it needs to roll to hit it better be something like 1/3 of the cost :\ remember skaven ratlingguns? Probably the most popular weaponteam of the previous book. In the new one I have't seen a single one fielded as of yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Dan View Post
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  20. #20
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    Re: Dwarf Army Book - Suggestions for 8th edition

    I want these two things:

    Stubborn on all dwarf lords.

    And the Master Rune of Gromril to be changed to a truly all out defensive rune for the dwarf lords. Raise the rune allowance for dwarf lords to the same as runelords (150 pts)

    And make this the rules of the Master Rune of Gromril (costs 150 pts)
    Whenever the character suffers an unsaved wound, or attack that would kill it outright (such as killing blow, spells that allow no saves etc), test against the characters unmodified toughness. If passed the wound or attack is ignored. In addition an item with this rune can never be negated or destroyed.

    This would make me buy a new dwarf army (misplaced my old). This is my dream.

    Would make the dwarflord a truly defensive character that could fight the baddest enemies at 300+ pts cost with rather low offensive power.

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