Do any of you actually buy BL books direct anymore?

[Yodhrin]

I'm just wondering because of the experience I had about half an hour ago. Until the last year, I would go into the local GW store and buy the new BL novels right from GW, but more recently I've been buying them online, simply because it's easier and cheaper(and because I finally cast off the remnants of the brand-loyalty they built into me as a kid). So tonight, I thought I'd try ordering straight from the BL website, since they're still doing that annoying thing whereby they release new books through themselves several weeks early, and their pricing actually elicited a belly-laugh.

Last week, I ordered Outcast Dead and Deliverance Lost from Amazon, and I payed less money for both, delivered, than BL want for Know No Fear. £11 for one paperback, delivered second-class parcel post? How are these guys still in business? I suppose I'm a little shocked that people are willing to pay such a ridiculous markup just so they can get a book a couple of weeks early.

[Killgore]

Well if you cant wait a month to read the latest book...

Plus for some people £11 is not alot of money.

[Londinium]

Walk into a local bookshop and you'll see the BL novels on sale for exactly the same price, a few years back people wouldn't have had a problem paying those prices and I still don't for books. £8/9 is still good value for a good novel. Plus BL.com regularly does deals on free shipping for your orders. Amazon prices are just that, Amazon prices, if you want to support the publisher buy direct, if you want to get a book for the absolute cheapest price, even though Amazon puts immense pressure on publishing companies to sell at the cheapest price due to it's market size, then go through Amazon.

For what it's worth I don't have much love for GW, so I buy the books at RRP through WHS, Waterstones or local bookshops because I value having those shops on the high street and don't want to see them go under from the challenge coming from Amazon. Although if I'm particularly jonesing for a book I might buy the ebook from GW, like I did with Know No Fear and will with Void Stalker.

[narrativium]

I threw off the 'brand loyalty' of Amazon two years ago, after they had a strop with some of the publishers who wouldn't let them underprice everyone in order to monopolise the market, and at the peak of their temper tantrum, took every book by those publishers off sale.

Whether I buy a BL novel from BL directly, from a GW store, from a bookstore franchise or an independent store... the specific place doesn't bother me. It keeps them in business.

[bound for glory]

i buy from barns and noble online(i'm 50 miles from the nearest bookstore). but after a 3 week delivery time in june, and a 26 day delivery time for deliverance lost, i tink i'll start taking a long drive for my BL books. i guess i can visit people while in the area...

[Kharn_21]

I buy eBooks from BL b/c I don't have space in my room for anymore book, combined with moving every year (yay being a student). Thank god for my kindle
Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express

[Yodhrin]

Well if you cant wait a month to read the latest book...

Plus for some people £11 is not alot of money.

Wow, so your first port of call is to wave your wallet around? Classy.

I threw off the 'brand loyalty' of Amazon two years ago, after they had a strop with some of the publishers who wouldn't let them underprice everyone in order to monopolise the market, and at the peak of their temper tantrum, took every book by those publishers off sale.

Whether I buy a BL novel from BL directly, from a GW store, from a bookstore franchise or an independent store... the specific place doesn't bother me. It keeps them in business.

See I've never understood that sort of objection, isn't Amazon using their market share to ensure they keep that market share in the face of competition exactly how companies are supposed to behave, and haven't the retail bookstore chains been doing the exact same thing to smaller indie bookshops for years? Why do people suddenly have a problem with the practice now? As for pushing publishers around, the publishing industry is a creaking antique, so frankly if Amazon's behaviour hastens their demise that's a point in their favour in my book.

[Londinium]

Wow, so your first port of call is to wave your wallet around? Classy.




See I've never understood that sort of objection, isn't Amazon using their market share to ensure they keep that market share in the face of competition exactly how companies are supposed to behave, and haven't the retail bookstore chains been doing the exact same thing to smaller indie bookshops for years? Why do people suddenly have a problem with the practice now? As for pushing publishers around, the publishing industry is a creaking antique, so frankly if Amazon's behaviour hastens their demise that's a point in their favour in my book.

Authors aren't exactly rich on royalties from books which retail at £8/9 RRP. Do you think they'd be any better if Amazon drives down average prices to something like £4 for a paperback? I have no problems with Amazon but I'd like to think the people who write the novels that entertain me can make a decent living out of their talent. For them to do so, publishing companies also have to thrive. This is not the recording industry where albums were stupidly overpriced, artists made even smaller royalties than authors do (and had to pay back the costs of making the album before they recieved any) and then the record companies made even more from licensing fees, tours and merchandise. If we want licensed 40k fiction we need authors that make decent amounts off writing it, for them to make decent amounts the books have to sell at a price that turns over a decent profit for the BL, such is the way of things.

Sure in the future I could see a market whereby well known authors self publish and are successful (like Trent Reznor/NIN do in music) but how do new writers get noticed? The publishing industry doesn't have the equivalent of being able to open gigs for popular bands. Furthermore how would companies such as BL get authors to write licensed fiction in a world where traditional publishing houses can't make a profit because unit costs are so low and thus publishers can't pay decent royalties and up front fees? If BL can't comission authors because of a lack of profit, there would simply be no 40k lit, full stop, because the IP belongs to them. It just wouldn't work, like or hate it, the present set up is needed and certainly isn't a creaking antique in the way the music industry was.

[Hengest]

I have a strange dislike for amazon as well. I'd rather buy from elsewhere. Cant really explain why. I dont particularly like their marketing of the kindle either so I got a sony e-reader instead - and found it much more compact and neater to be honest as well as less restrictive. I buy some stuff from BL but I also prefer buying things in real shops. As such I'll continue to support them rather than an internet company.

[AquaSulis]

@Yodhrin ... I pre-order through Amazon now (all books and audibooks/dramas); it's quick, convenient and one of the cheaper areas of a generally expensive hobby. The usual downside of waiting a little longer for the books I mitigate by having built up a reading backlog ... but avoiding spoilers on (ahem) some sites can be a problem.

If GW felt it were a problem then they could go down the Forge World Imperial Armour route, but clearly higher volume and a lower margin is key here so they need a wider distribution network to reach the masses.

The Horus Heresy series is my main "attachment" to Black Library and I've never felt the need to get the next volume of the series as soon as it comes out. The series isn't linear enough for me (other then the first three books) in the same way as a graphic novel such as "The Walking Dead" so from each successive book I've not been left with a classical cliffhanger feel of what happens next.

I will add I still get posters/direct exclusives from the BL site and I am a massive fan of the series overall and have "Outcast Dead" and "Deliverance Lost" waiting to be read ...

[Erik_Morkai]

I buy from Black Library since I only buy eBooks anymore. My book collection is getting out of proportion. Thanks to my Kindle I keep everything close plus the price of eBooks from me is less than ordering from Amazon + shipping.

Many books end up costing the equivalent of £6 ($8.99 CAD) so no gas, no shipping and instant delivery. What's not to like?

[eldargal]

I'd rather pay more and have that money to go Black Library so they can continue producing books than put money into the pocket of Amazon. The same applies to most chain stores, I'll happily pay more if the money is going to the people who produce a quality product.

[Killgore]

Wow, so your first port of call is to wave your wallet around? [I]Classy.

And the problem with that is?

It's a fact that some people rather pay more then what they would from a discount store to read a book a few weeks early, and yes many people can afford to do so. (insert random comment on 11 quid being the price of 2 double vodkas on a night out)

[Spider-pope]

I usually buy from Play.com these days since they are usually a bit cheaper and it saves me the £4+ that it'd cost me to get into Liverpool. But i do pick up books occasionally from GW, usually if something catches my eye or if i've got nothing to read on the bus back home.

[ChrisMurray]

I used to buy from play and other locations but now I order all my BL books direct. There delivery price is still fair, £3 may seem alot on one book, but order several and it is hardly noticable. I order from them because it allows me to get the book earlier than from other places, I personally think the prices are fair (I am aware they are cheaper elsewhere). I also find that the packaging they are delivered in is better, I'm aware this isn't a major concern but it is a nice touch to know that there won't be arny dog ears on the book when I receive it.

[Xisor]

Wow, so your first port of call is to wave your wallet around? Classy.

This baffles and annoys me more than a little.

"I suppose I'm a little shocked that people are willing to pay" is basically tantamount to saying "my wallet is emptier". Can you blame anyone for saying "Well my wallet is not so empty; I don't mind the price, I'll pay it."

Having a go at them for doffing their top-hat, beating you with their diamond encrusted gentleman's cane and popping their monocle in disbelief at such extreme poverty seems ... to be missing the mark.

If the price isn't so bad (which I'd say it isn't: for comparison purposes and to set some perspective - try enjoying some 'new' books in New Zealand) and for some people that alone is enough, the rest of the reasons are...just more reasons.

Seeing money go to publishers rather than distributors seems like a very fine & principled way of doing things, in my mind.

[Isadiel]

I buy the ebooks on black library to read on my ipad. The price difference doesn't seem much and it directly goes to black library which feels a better way of showing you want them to write and release the next book in the series or for a particular author to write more books.

[S_A_T_S]

I'm not keen on e-books myself - one of the things I love about proper books is that I can give the books to someone and say "That book is amazing, you have to read it!" without them having to spend cash to buy it, and a large investment to be able to read it in the first place. I also like that I sometimes see my friends and family standing together in front of a bookcase, discussing what's good, what isn't, what books they can borrow/swap and which ones they are planning to buy next. Not as pleasant huddled around a tiny computer screen...

Back on topic: Amazon are scum who have cancelled orders of mine TWICE on separate occasions with no rhyme or reason, or notification. I have not bought anything from them in 7-8 years, and never will. BL books are actually one thing I quite like to buy in a real shop. I can look over the copies they have, make sure the one I get isn't dog-eared, talk to staff about future books (GW) or look at other interesting books I might not otherwise know about on nearby shelves (other shops). Other than the occasional wash or paint, books are the only things I actually purchase in GW stores anymore.

[Xisor]

This dredged itself out of my memory a little while after posting earlier. I think it strikes me as particularly relevant to this discussion when considering the 'other avenues' we take. Of course, it's hardly conclusive, but reflecting on it, it makes my own 'stance' seem a little bit more...flimsy!

"The question of the new research is this – does this egocentric bias extend to brands to which we are loyal? How much do we internalize our brand choices? The researchers found that subjects would continue to rate their favorite brands (what they call self-connected brands) highly, even after being presented with negative information about those brands. They interpreted a brand failure as a personal failure, and engaged all their defense mechanisms to protect the image of the brand to which they had identified.

Unlike with the self, however, brand loyalty has its limits. We are stuck with ourselves, but we can abandon a self-connected brand if we learn unacceptable negative information about it. So we will protect our self-image by protecting our self-connected brands, but if a brand goes too far then we protect ourselves by jettisoning the brand, perhaps feeling betrayed and deceived. We can engage situational factors to explain away our misplaced loyalty, once again protecting our self-image." - From the NESS blog entry discussing research on brand loyalty.

[Yodhrin]

This baffles and annoys me more than a little.

"I suppose I'm a little shocked that people are willing to pay" is basically tantamount to saying "my wallet is emptier". Can you blame anyone for saying "Well my wallet is not so empty; I don't mind the price, I'll pay it."

Having a go at them for doffing their top-hat, beating you with their diamond encrusted gentleman's cane and popping their monocle in disbelief at such extreme poverty seems ... to be missing the mark.

If the price isn't so bad (which I'd say it isn't: for comparison purposes and to set some perspective - try enjoying some 'new' books in New Zealand) and for some people that alone is enough, the rest of the reasons are...just more reasons.

Seeing money go to publishers rather than distributors seems like a very fine & principled way of doing things, in my mind.

Except that's not what was said, the comment was "for some people £11 is not a lot of money", and while this is a factual statement, it is a crass one. For many people, £11 IS rather a lot of money; some of us have to watch every penny if we want to have access to entertainment products at all. It's the same kind of disconnected and casual snobbery that makes certain people think it's perfectly OK to chastise someone for shopping at Tesco or ASDA because they put pressure on farmers, or don't stock enough fair-trade.

Isadiel somehow managed to express the same sentiment without resorting to crassness, it's not as if it's impossible.