Hordes vs. Warmachine

[Shield of Freedom]

Hey there. I've been playing Warmachine off and on for about 2 years. Recently with the release of "Hordes" the game has picked up. Well at least the "interest" has and a lot of people (like me) are either dusting off thier Warmachine or buying new Hordes.

Then something happened.... someone stated that they heard that Hordes and Warmachine are not "really" compatable. Mostly due to unbalanced points cost between the two games. Even though Privateer Press emphasizes that Hordes is a stand alone game it also makes several referencess to the two games fighting eachother. Even going as far as putting Warmachine errata IN the Hordes rulebook to help clarify how some powers work on Warbeasts instead of Warjacks.

So... and here's my point, what do you all think? Is it ok or only a pipe dream to make a league of players mixing Hordes and Warmachine?

We plan on starting out with a league style play and then moving into a campaign taking place in the game world. All 9 factions are represented right now (Warmachine, Hordes, Mercenaries).


Looking for your oppinions or facts. Thanks.

[Begisle]

Warmachine will have 4 books out by Gencon, Hordes will be working on the first. If Prime is any indication, it will take a year or more for primal to be completely released.

Meaning it can be done, but the Hordes players will have a serious disadvantage.

[Keravin]

I think it's easily compatible just not straight out of the box as the Hordes boxes have less points than the Warmachine ones.

[Starfall]

Privateer Press has stated that the points costs are slightly unbalanced for games of a WM box set vs. a Hordes box set. They recommend adding a little to the Hordes sets to make up the difference. However, having looked through Primal, the points costs in general seem to be in line with WM costs. Its hard to tell w/o playing how thigs translate for warlocks and beasts since Fury is so different from Focus, but overall they appear to be compatible on points so far.

[Gupp]

I've played vs warmachine before with hordes, and although we had to cut it short, I found it perfectly compatible... no real favor towards one or the other.

[thommo]

I've played vs warmachine before with hores

sorry...but the typo made me giggle....childish i know!

[Shield of Freedom]

Thanks all. I generally agree. On paper in the book it looks good and the Hordes will seem underpowered at the moment only for lack of variety in thier armies compared to the Warmachine factions right now. If we were to start our campaing limiting Warmachine players to Warmachine: Prime I think that might balance it out against Hordes: Primal. As opposed to allowing Warmachine: Escalaition or Warmachine: Prophecy. Again thanks, if anyone else has comments go ahead, I'll check the thread again.

[dancingmonkey]

how did the hit points work out for those who have played? I was looking at the cards today (in london and just couldnt resist those skorne models) and i realized that the life cycles are really quite small, and I play cryx so thats saying something. I guess it comes down to the healing properties the aizards posess.

Will play my first game tommorow night...

[Capt. Buko]

You are making a huge mistake by thinking points = points.

You just have to understand how the focus vs fury points are used in the two games.

Here's an exapmle - warjacks for the most part get 3 focus max..cool huh?

My titan in Hordes - gets a free slam - now If I was smart I slammed him into a group that had others withint hth reach - I then have 4 fury to cause havok with - then next turn if I don't leech he 'zerks big deal he'll attack the nearest enemy in hth and all rolls are boosted for free...cool huh?

Also my Titan's Def is 12 and Arm is 19....cool huh?

AND your warlock can HEAL your beasts...now that is cool!

OK, ok, sorry I'm being silly but the point is that you can't judge something by points alone.


PS merchs are not a faction.

[Gupp]

Mercs are a faction. They can gain victory points, and you can have your entire army from them.

[Shield of Freedom]

Mercs are a faction. They can gain victory points, and you can have your entire army from them.

Right, Mercenaries have everything they need to be an army. Minions, as of yet, do not so therefore ar not quite a faction. They MAY be though in time just like it took time in Warmachine before you could field an army of Mercs.

[Shield of Freedom]

You are making a huge mistake by thinking points = points.

You just have to understand how the focus vs fury points are used in the two games.

Here's an exapmle - warjacks for the most part get 3 focus max..cool huh?

My titan in Hordes - gets a free slam - now If I was smart I slammed him into a group that had others withint hth reach - I then have 4 fury to cause havok with - then next turn if I don't leech he 'zerks big deal he'll attack the nearest enemy in hth and all rolls are boosted for free...cool huh?

Also my Titan's Def is 12 and Arm is 19....cool huh?

AND your warlock can HEAL your beasts...now that is cool!

OK, ok, sorry I'm being silly but the point is that you can't judge something by points alone.


PS merchs are not a faction.

Neato!

I reallly want to start Skorne but my funds are currently limited so I have to dust off my Cygnar instead for our league. Sounds cool though I'm gonna give the Hordes rulebook another skim through, or better yet, actually sit down and read it.

[Brandir]

HORDES and WARMACHINE are fully compatible.

The only issue is the lack of choice at the moment. However, by December all the HORDES: Primal stuff will have been released. Then we will begin the build up to the April 2007 release of HORDES: Evolution!

The aim of Privateer Press is to release one HORDES and one WARMACHINE book a year and 10 waves of miniatures for each game.

I suspect that Minions will become a faction like Mercenaries sometime next year, either through HORDES: Evolution or No Quarter.

[Shield of Freedom]

Sounds great Brandir!

I got to play a game of Hordes yesterday. A friend let me use his Skorne while he taught me how to play against his other friend using the trolls. My god this game is simple, I love it! The Fury system is easy to understand and is quite similar (although works in an opposite direction) to Focus for Warmachine. Today after work we plan on having our first Warmachine vs. Hordes fight. It'll be a my Cygnar (Commander Coleman, Charger, Ironclad) agains the Everblight box set. He has me by about 30 points I think. Should be fun. I'll give a review later today. As of this post it's 10:00am Central. I won't be able to play until about 5:00pm.

[Brandir]

WARMACHINE Battlegroup box set points:

Magnus the Traitor: 300 points
Khador: 302 points
Cryx: 307 points
Protectorate of Menoth: 309 points
Gorton: 316 points
Cygnar: 318 points

HORDES Warpack box set points:

Circle Orboros: 275 points
Legion of Everblight: 278 points
Trollbloods: 286 points
Skorne: 290 points

The Cygnar force will therefore outnumber the Everblight boys and girl by 40 points.

[Shield of Freedom]

Yes, I'm aware of that. That's why I took out the Lancer Warjack. Only Coleman Stryker, the Ironclad, and the Charger will be used against the full Everblight box set. So by my calculations he'll have me by 36 points I think (76points for the lancer?).

An alternative was using Stryker, an Ironclad, and a Defender. It put me closer (like 12 points) but I felt using two Heavy Warjacks might be too much agianst a Hordes box set even if the points were close and still in favor of the Hordes.

I havn't played Warmachine for quite some time so I'm also limited to my model selection (not as much as a Horde player I know). I have less than 1000 points in models and only 6 warjacks and two casters amongst them. I have NOTHING from the two expansion books only units from Prime.

[Brandir]

Sorry, I didn't read you post properly about not having the Lancer!

[Shield of Freedom]

No problem Brandir, but you made a good post as others might not have known about the 20-30 point difference in favor of the Warmachine boxes.

My current model selection is only this:

Commander Coleman Stryker* (the young one, not the new badass)
Lieutenant Allister Cain (Twin pistols)

Ironclad*
Defender

Lancer*
Lancer
Charger*
Sentinel

5 Stormblades plus Leader
9 Trenchers plus Leader
Field Mechanik plus all 4 Goblin Bodgers

about almost 900 points total so I still have over 100 points to go before I can make a 1000 point 2 Warcaster legal army. So far only the Orginal Cygnar box set is fully painted, indicated by the (*) as well as about 90% complete on the Stormblades.

[dancingmonkey]

last night saw my denny 500pts annihilate a circle 500 pt.

i was running 4 chickens (2 ripper a defiler and a wretch) a unit of bane, bile and mech, a bloat, a skarlock a necrotech and a bloat thall. Circle had the core box, ten of the wolves, a unit of the big guys, and the guy with the crow. Sorry thats a bit vague...

we played crossed lines, I lost the first turn, but only lost two bomb thralls and two mech thralls. basically it was all over after that. my bile thralls were great, and my bane thralls wiped out the dire wolf in one round of frenzied madness.. my bloat wiped out the wolves, the pistolwraith hit with all three shots to freeze the warlock, who was then slammed by the waiting ripper...

after that we called it a day...

don't really know what i learned from the game other than i love cryx, and they are actually good in combat. oh, and you can get three rolls of ten in a row when you really need them

[Spacemunkie]

Been playing my Khadoran scumbags against those troll things. Used a stand-in for a Dire Troll in the last game to even up the points and they did very well indeed - I got a reet kicking! The whole Fury vs Focus thing makes for an interesting game as well.

Generally there seems to be no problems playing the two forces together - both have their strengths/weaknesses and it's not as if the points values for things like warcasters actually mean a great deal anyway! The only real problem we've had is with the poxy damage chart wotsits on the stat cards. Too small and fiddly!

Must buy me some Trollkin. The minis are fab.