Why can Wayland post pictures but other internet retailers can't?

[shelfunit.]

The other reason is from the retailer's point of view. If GW halved their prices overnight, Wayland's (et al) rent, staffing costs, etc would stay the same. Suddenly they're bringing in half the revenue, and however successful they are, I doubt they could cope with that. (The other side of the coin is that we know GW can't afford to do that either).

Of course, at the same time the cost of buying stock from GW would reduce by 50% for Wayland et al as well, and with the 10-20% discount many, many more people would shop from them (Wayland et al) than currently do (and individually would probably spend more as well) - both because of GW lowering their prices (haha..) and the fact that it would still be far, far cheaper to buy from the webstore. Sadly (ish) for GW their problems began with the dawning of the internet. It is essentially everywhere now and people can chose both when and where they shop - if you don't play in a shop, (or have a very, very good LGS nearby) there really isn't any need to buy from them.

[rich1231]

Not quite true. Consumers look at both the percentage discount and the absolute discount when considering cheaper items, and compare to the opportunity cost of buying from said discounter.
For example; I could buy Bananas at my corner store for $5, or drive half an hour to buy them for $4? I'll buy them here, thanks.
But if I could buy a TV at my corner store for $500, or drive half an hour to get it for $400, the latter is more likely to occur.

The other reason is from the retailer's point of view. If GW halved their prices overnight, Wayland's (et al) rent, staffing costs, etc would stay the same. Suddenly they're bringing in half the revenue, and however successful they are, I doubt they could cope with that. (The other side of the coin is that we know GW can't afford to do that either).

Thank the lord I don't ask your advice for business planning.

Forgot to make a remark regarding the OP of the thread..

We have to use our own pics, we even have had product photographers come it to take GW images from our stock. GW believe that their images being controlled protects their IP. Their pictures, their rules no matter how odd it might sound.

We have a photo studio in the new warehouse, and another type of studio too Also if you keep your eyes peeled for Tabletopnation.com we will be making professional images and other data available to other retailers where legally possible.

[FredegarKadere]

Just because GW drops its MSRP by 25% does not mean that they drop their product cost to independent stores. Cost to produce is pretty much fixed. Cost to stores is pretty much fixed. Retail cost is whatever they (GW or indies) think they can sell it for. For example:

If Cadians have a MSRP of $20 and are sold to stores at $10 now.. Then GW changes the MSRP to be $15 for a box of Cadians, yet continue to sell the box to stores at $10.. Stores won't be offering 25% off then because they'd be making nothing on it outside of massive volume sales.

[Cxt]

But currently they sell to indies as a percent off of MSRP, so changing their MSRP does mean costs to stores decreases. Only if they change their current model would that be different.

[shelfunit.]

Just because GW drops its MSRP by 25% does not mean that they drop their product cost to independent stores. Cost to produce is pretty much fixed. Cost to stores is pretty much fixed. Retail cost is whatever they (GW or indies) think they can sell it for. For example:

If Cadians have a MSRP of $20 and are sold to stores at $10 now.. Then GW changes the MSRP to be $15 for a box of Cadians, yet continue to sell the box to stores at $10.. Stores won't be offering 25% off then because they'd be making nothing on it outside of massive volume sales.

And so they (indies) would stop selling it - there is little incentive to buy from an (online) indie if there is no discount over buying it from GW direct and the majority of those who buy with a discount do so because they refuse to pay full whack. End result GW loses a lot of customers.

[Autumn Leaves]

Discount is the primary incentive.
Location the secondary.

[shelfunit.]

Discount is the primary incentive.
Location the secondary.

Not for us people who live in (European) foreign parts. Why pay the Euro premium GW charges when I can get 10%+ off UK prices? In my (and a lot of other gamers I know here) case it is the fact that discount and location are essentially the same thing.

[xxRavenxx]

Thank the lord I don't ask your advice for business planning.

Trasvi is right.

If an item is cheap enough that the percentage becomes insignificant, people will not waste time to obtain it.

Normal people don't quibble over a dollar. But for a hundred they'll put some effort in.

The fact is it doesnt apply to GW products because the price will never be so low, but he is entirely correct.

He is also corect in that GW has no incentive to do what people are suggesting in pricecuts, because lowering costs just loses them money. Try explaining to the stock holders that you decided to give 50% of the companies value back to the customers and see how quickly you're lynched.


With regards to the suggestion from other people, that GW could just cut the profit margin to indies to 20%...

Well, it would pinch in on wayland and maelstrom, and close the doors of every brick and mortar in the country as they go broke. So... bad plan.

[rich1231]

No he isn't, he made some assumptions about our business which are incorrect.

He also made an absolute remark about cheapness vs gratification purchases, which are disproved by B&M and Internet stores all being able to co exist currently. There isn't one customer type that is 100% predictable there is a entire spectrum of purchasing preferences that influence buying decisions.

Trasvi is right.

If an item is cheap enough that the percentage becomes insignificant, people will not waste time to obtain it.

Normal people don't quibble over a dollar. But for a hundred they'll put some effort in.

The fact is it doesnt apply to GW products because the price will never be so low, but he is entirely correct.

He is also corect in that GW has no incentive to do what people are suggesting in pricecuts, because lowering costs just loses them money. Try explaining to the stock holders that you decided to give 50% of the companies value back to the customers and see how quickly you're lynched.


With regards to the suggestion from other people, that GW could just cut the profit margin to indies to 20%...

Well, it would pinch in on wayland and maelstrom, and close the doors of every brick and mortar in the country as they go broke. So... bad plan.

[xxRavenxx]

No he isn't, he made some assumptions about our business which are incorrect.

He also made an absolute remark about cheapness vs gratification purchases, which are disproved by B&M and Internet stores all being able to co exist currently. There isn't one customer type that is 100% predictable there is a entire spectrum of purchasing preferences that influence buying decisions.

I personally don't see it. He mentions people who purchase things *right now* rather than save a couple of dollars, and he mentions the benefit of waiting and putting in legwork to get a decent saving.

He also talks about how to save £2, many people won't bother to go further afield, but for a bigger saving they might.

I'd say it reflects the competition between B&M and online retail perfectly.


I retain most of my custom because my convenience of being local and services provided motivate people to not bother with the £2 odd savings on a box of marines. The second we're talking a £100 purchase and a saving of over £10, I start having to fight you guys to keep the sale.

From my end of the business, I think hes spot on with how people work. A % saving is uninteresting when you're saving pennies. Its a powerful thing when you can pocket a bank note.

[Crazy Harborc]

No "need" to buy direct from GW. No discount means no buying of GW products. My regular opponents and I have not bought direct from GW since the GW store bailed out of the area. The pricing level since then is the last straw for GW purchases. That and driving 300 plus miles to Chicago, Il.

[Autumn Leaves]

Not for us people who live in (European) foreign parts. Why pay the Euro premium GW charges when I can get 10%+ off UK prices? In my (and a lot of other gamers I know here) case it is the fact that discount and location are essentially the same thing.

So just discount for you then? ;-)

Wayland are fine if you don't mind waiting for your products.
If you want something quickly though, better to look elsewhere.

[Damien 1427]

So just discount for you then? ;-)

Wayland are fine if you don't mind waiting for your products.
If you want something quickly though, better to look elsewhere.

Depends. Since I live in Essex, it's a thirty minute drive. Even when I order from them, it's usually pretty quick. Certainly no better or worse than GW.

[Autumn Leaves]

Yeah GW can be pretty slow too, the better aspect about Wayland is they give discounts.
It's been a looooong time since GW had the notion of giving a discount.
It must be the year 2000 when they had their last annual overstock sale from the retail shops?

[shelfunit.]

So just discount for you then? ;-)

Me and everyone over on the continent sans a GW ;-p

Wayland are fine if you don't mind waiting for your products.
If you want something quickly though, better to look elsewhere.

Have to agree on this one - if it's instock I have always recieved my order within a week from Maelstrom (order on the sunday/early monday, get it either on the thursday or friday), if not in stock the longest I have waited has been about 2-3 weeks, due to the horrific volume of metal/plastic I have though, this has never been a real problem.

[Trasvi]

A % saving is uninteresting when you're saving pennies. Its a powerful thing when you can pocket a bank note.

That's a really good way to put it.

I'm basing my claims on basic economic theory about opportunity cost, and experience in electronics retail. I know that individual consumers aren't perfectly rational individuals, but as you can rely fairly well on theory for consumers as a whole. Some people also get perceived value from buying local to support the local store. I do.
When I was buying 40k products, I bought from Maelstrom/Wayland. I saved about 50% of local retail price.
Now I buy Warmachine stuff. I can save about 20% getting it from Wayland : 15% getting it from an Aussie distributor : or 10% getting it locally. I choose local now because I have it *right now* (and I don't yet have a painting backlog of WMH stuff) and I help keep the local stores afloat. I don't care so much about the savings because I feel that even at full retail price, I'm getting good value for my dollar.

To revisit my erroneous assumptions about Wayland... lets say that GW dropped its retail prices by 50% overnight. They still sell to resellers at 45% (?) off full retail. Thus to keep at the same revenue level, the reseller would need to sell twice as much product. But given the demonstrated elasticity of GW products (from their last few years of financials) I find it extremely doubtful that this doubling of volume would occur. And as xxRavenxx and I postulated above, as people would be saving less absolute money buying from retailers, more people would be content buying full retail price for the benefit of having their product immediately; so volume would need to MORE than double for the reseller to maintain the same revenue level. Plus additional operating costs to cover the increased volume. Wayland (and others) are possibly shielded from this happening by carrying multiple product lines so that a change in one line does not kill the business. But I don't feel that I've made any particularly poor assumptions. If there is one in particular, I'd be very glad to be called out on it. I'm curious about getting into wargaming retail in the future if I can make the numbers work, so if anything I've said is profoundly wrong feel free to say so.