Dark Elves for an interesting blood bowl tourney

[2841981]

hey

in a few months i will be entering a bloodbowl tourney with some interesting variations on the standard tournament.

firstly i'll kick off with the rule stipulations

1,200,000 starting teasury

starting skill selection of either
A) 4 normal skills and 2 doubles skills
B) 4 normal skills, 1 double and either +1mv OR +1av

no players may recieve more than 1 upgrade
no skill upgrade may be selected more than twice
normal skills may be chosen in place of doubles.

so ive been wrackin my brain trying to work out what i should take and have come up with the 3 following teams

Team 1
2 witch elves
4 blitzers
5 linemen
1 runner
3 re-rolls
skills
sure hands - runner
2 X wrestle witch elves
2 X guard linos
kick - blitzer
Thoughts
12 players allows for a bit of redundancy. not sure on the usefulness of having 2 witch elves though., also not too comfortable having only 3 re-rolls.
witch elves used as back line blitzers, frenzy combined with wrestle should increase chance of sacking ball handlers, and jump up will help nullify the disadvantage of going down myself. on offense they will be used to open gaps and make use of dodge to act as optional recievers generally they will make a nuisance of themselves.
sure hands on the runner to help with the inevitable 1's on pickup rolls.
2 lots of guard is seems to me to be the obvious choice for my doubles.
kick as it will allow me to kick deep, forcing bashy teams to cage deep and passing teams to throw further.

Team 2
1 witch elf
4 blitzers
7 linemen
4 re-rolls
skills
2 X guard linos
1 X wrestle witch elf
1 X kicker
2 X dodge blitzers
Thoughts
12 players. this team seems to be a bit more balanced to my eyes and i dont have too much av7 weakening my line.
wrestle, kick and guard for the same reason as above. blodging blitzers for the obvious reasons, hopefully i wouldnt encounter much tackle.

Team 3
1 witch elf
1 runner
4 blitzers
5 linemen
5 re-rolls
skills
runner - sure hands/accurate (to give me a passing option)
witch elf -wrestle
lino - kick
2 X linos w/guard
blitzer - leap
Thoughts
only eleven players but 5 re-rolls. i would have prefered the 12 man but havent got the spare gold. Perhaps i could swap out a re-roll for an apocathery to try and keep wounded players active. considering accurate on the runner this time as the extra re-roll would help cover the the potential pick up fail. also considering leap for a blitzer for those crazy plays.

if you have made it through that wall of text, please give me your thoughts on the teams and what you personally would take given the guidelines for team creation.
any advice on skill selection and potential combos would also be appreciated.

cheers

Nath

[korinth]

I would go for

2 witch elves
4 blitzers
5 linemen
1 runner
3 re-rolls

2x witch elf block
1x lineman dirty player
1x blitzer strip ball

[Anaris]

How about...

4 x Blitzers (Tackle)(Leap)
1 x Runner (Nerves of Steal)
1 x Assasin (Multiple Block)
1 x Witch Elf (Wrestle or Tackle)
5 x Lineman (Kick)
3 x Re-Roll
1 x Cheerleader
1 x Assistant Coach

1200 on the nose.

My thoughts on the above...

I'm not a fan of the WE player. You have to be very careful as to where and when you use her to hit players on the pitch, lest you be drawn out of position if the block dice don't fall kindly. I tend to use mine as a defensive player, if I use her at all, as she has the speed to keep up with receivers and you often will get two chances to knock them down with Frenzy.

Kick is always the first skill I choose for a Lineman - being able to place that ball deep in the opposition territory is gold, regardless of how fast the opposition are, forcing a player to fall back and collect it can delays their plans for a turn.

Nerves of Steel and Multiple Block on the Runner and Assassin are obvious and a in our latest league at our club, my Leaping Blitzer was probably my best player for his ability to get into small holes, break up and or stall a cage and is even a threat to those coaches who make the mistake of not picking up a loose ball when they get a chance.

Finally, I prefer Tackle over Strip Ball as against any player with Sure Hands, which includes most ball-handlers for Dwarfs, Human, Khemri, Orc and Skaven (all fairly common tournament teams) and that's before you factor in anyone who has chosen it as an additional skill.

My $0.02

[korinth]

I'm not a fan of the WE player. You have to be very careful as to where and when you use her to hit players on the pitch, lest you be drawn out of position if the block dice don't fall kindly. I tend to use mine as a defensive player, if I use her at all, as she has the speed to keep up with receivers and you often will get two chances to knock them down with Frenzy.

I guess that means our playing styles differ greatly. I often use my WEs as ball carriers or in offensive engagement. With two of them the opponent respects the sidelines better, which helps a lot. It is also the only player with a good chance of breaking out of a tightly packed side cage, even if knocked down. A block/dodge witch elf will also help breaking into cages and disrupting ball play. A blitzer with leap is also great for this. I would upgrade to 2 witch elves before getting the 3rd blitzer any day, but I know many disagree with me on this point.

Your comments on the skills are very valuable. Kick is indeed a nice skill, but Dirty Player may also be crucial for a low armor offensive team.

[2841981]

I would go for

2 witch elves
4 blitzers
5 linemen
1 runner
3 re-rolls

2x witch elf block
1x lineman dirty player
1x blitzer strip ball

hmm im not sure on dirty player as i think fouling is a bit too random at the best of times and im not sure if i want to risk losing a player and over committing at a tourney. as for strip ball, i ruled that out due to the very reason Anaris mentioned im thinking a wrestle WE would be better for sacking opposing runners so im not sure if i want blockers.

How about...

4 x Blitzers (Tackle)(Leap)
1 x Runner (Nerves of Steal)
1 x Assasin (Multiple Block)
1 x Witch Elf (Wrestle or Tackle)
5 x Lineman (Kick)
3 x Re-Roll
1 x Cheerleader
1 x Assistant Coach

1200 on the nose.

My thoughts on the above...

I'm not a fan of the WE player. You have to be very careful as to where and when you use her to hit players on the pitch, lest you be drawn out of position if the block dice don't fall kindly. I tend to use mine as a defensive player, if I use her at all, as she has the speed to keep up with receivers and you often will get two chances to knock them down with Frenzy.

Kick is always the first skill I choose for a Lineman - being able to place that ball deep in the opposition territory is gold, regardless of how fast the opposition are, forcing a player to fall back and collect it can delays their plans for a turn.

Nerves of Steel and Multiple Block on the Runner and Assassin are obvious and a in our latest league at our club, my Leaping Blitzer was probably my best player for his ability to get into small holes, break up and or stall a cage and is even a threat to those coaches who make the mistake of not picking up a loose ball when they get a chance.

Finally, I prefer Tackle over Strip Ball as against any player with Sure Hands, which includes most ball-handlers for Dwarfs, Human, Khemri, Orc and Skaven (all fairly common tournament teams) and that's before you factor in anyone who has chosen it as an additional skill.

My $0.02

i agree with your point about WE's and i intend on using mine primarily as a back line blitzer on defence.
kick i agree with. nerves of steel i did do need to reconsider my only worry is its taking up a skill choice, but it could help keep the ball in my possession if they get to the runner. Im not sure on taking an assassin as im expecting there could be alot of high AV teams at the tourney, and they arent too reliable even against av7. quite like the idea of having a leap blitzer as a wildcard player.

Do you guys not think guard is a must?

thanks for the advice, its good to see this from other peoples point of views

Nath

[Anaris]

Guard is a nice option to have, but no, I wouldn't consider it a must.

As a DE team, the only other teams you should be 'fighting' are low AV teams (Elves, WE's Skaven, Stunty teams etc) and when playing against those teams you will find that after a few blocks you should outnumber them and so shouldn't need Guard at that point.

Against high AV teams that want to fight, I refer you to the section of the rules on making a Dodge roll

[korinth]

hmm im not sure on dirty player as i think fouling is a bit too random at the best of times and im not sure if i want to risk losing a player and over committing at a tourney. as for strip ball, i ruled that out due to the very reason Anaris mentioned im thinking a wrestle WE would be better for sacking opposing runners so im not sure if i want blockers.

I think block on the WE is very important. I want them standing up on as many results as possible of the block dice, partly because of the Frenzy skill but also because they become targets as opponents want to take them out. The Witch Elf is one of the best positionals in the game along with the Wardancer and the Norse Blitzer.

Wrestle is a very good option for the WE, as you already decided. However, it is a league you are playing in, so I'd design utility features later on when you know what other teams go for. Before that I'd go for generally applicable skills.

[zerodemon]

I completely agree with Korinth. Your WEs should be given Block as a priority. Roving hunter type miniatures with Frenzy are better off taking Block than any other skill. Wrestle is nice for some situations (ie an opponent with Block) but you have no chance of injuring the ball carrier, and you end your own movement for this model. If you are blitzing, you may have squares of movement left to collect the ball. You also would have to spend precious MA next turn standing your WE up. Block keeps you standing, brings down the opponent in many cases and works defensively if you're being attacked.

If the opponents ball carrier has Block, you have the built in redundancy of having Frenzy, and therefore a second chance at bringing down your enemy.

One more reason to take Block? Staying on your feet prevents people from fouling you on a both down result (something that can happen to Wrestlers.) WEs are AV7 and VERY vulnerable to fouling. 2 Assists against your WE in a foul gives you only a 5/18 chance of not having your armour broken. Those are not good odds.

[korinth]

Uhm, I completetly misread the specification for the tournament and missed the doubles. I'll give a second team:

2 x Witch Elves
4 x Blitzers
4 x Linemen
1 x Runner
1 x Apothecary
1 x Assistant coach or Cheerleader

I'd still give the 2 WEs Block, but now that I know that there are doubles (I should have caught this on the discussion of wrestle). I could give one WE Mighty Blow and the other WE Wrestle, allowing for one more defensive and one more offensive. I would also still go for Dirty Player, but since you don't like it I'll say 2 Blitzers up with Dodge instead.

Sorry about my confusion earlier!

[Coach]

I would highly advise taking Wrestle on one Witch Elf and Block on the other. Not having Wrestle on the team is a mistake in my opinion.

In tournament settings it will be common for opposing teams to have Block + Dodge ball carriers, Wrestle will greatly increase your chances of getting the ball off them, whilst Block will offer no benefit over Wrestle in that circumstance. The only alternative to this would be to take Tackle, though there will be plenty of teams that don't have Dodge at all, thus wasting your Tackle skill choice.

I would also consider taking Leader on your Runner, otherwise I'd probably not bother taking one as a Lineman is both cheaper and has higher armour. This will save you the cost of a reroll at the expense of a skill. This will also then free up enough funds to be able to get an Apothecary along with your listed 12 man roster. Remember they can now turn a KO into a stun, which is useful in the second half to keep a player on the pitch when they may otherwise miss the rest of the half. It may also be worth considering using this option towards the end of the first half on one of your skilled positional players too as it will avoid having the 50 50 KO recovery roll.

I would also use at least one double to take Guard on a Blitzer, putting it on the Linemen isn't as good. They move slower and they also lack Block for protection which Guard players will tend to need more.

Something like, Wrestle, Block, Guard, Guard, Strip Ball and Leader will probably make the most effective all round team.

If you can't get the ball off the other team or stop them scoring, then you will struggle.