Void Stalker in review (mild spoilers), 4.5 Skulls out of 5 for the eighth legion!

[Scribe of Khorne]

Started reading this at about 6 last night, finished it a few minutes ago. Lots of emotion in this book, from sin's revealed, to final betrayals that you really can feel and the true hammering home of the fact that the Night Lords are really really bad dudes.

'....a good man!' had me laughing last night.

[Freak Ona Leash]

Throne of Lies has Octavia in it, so can't be before Soul Hunter :-)

In my defense, I get punched in the head on a regular basis, brain cells for the Blood God and all that

[DarthMcBob]

I borrowed this from a friend. Didn't think much of the main cast. The utterly pointless atrocity near the beginning really made me despise them. They gained nothing from that. The only crime those civilians had committed was to unknowingly be on the same world where Curze died. And for that, Talos and co. killed them in hideous ways.

Honestly, Talos' obsession with hurting the Imperium and avenging Curze just seem really weird. Ok, so your father died. My father died too, but I got over it. Honestly, for superhumans, they're a bunch of whiny emo bitches.

Hell, Curze hated their guts and wanted to die. Why get so angry about it? It's not like he was ever fatherly, or in any way caring. He even admitted to Talos before he kicked the bucket that he didn't give a rat's ass what happened to them once he was dead. Why get so angry that some random unfortunates were living on the same world 10,000 years later?

[Scribe of Khorne]

I borrowed this from a friend. Didn't think much of the main cast. The utterly pointless atrocity near the beginning really made me despise them. They gained nothing from that. The only crime those civilians had committed was to unknowingly be on the same world where Curze died. And for that, Talos and co. killed them in hideous ways.

Honestly, Talos' obsession with hurting the Imperium and avenging Curze just seem really weird. Ok, so your father died. My father died too, but I got over it. Honestly, for superhumans, they're a bunch of whiny emo bitches.

Hell, Curze hated their guts and wanted to die. Why get so angry about it? It's not like he was ever fatherly, or in any way caring. He even admitted to Talos before he kicked the bucket that he didn't give a rat's ass what happened to them once he was dead. Why get so angry that some random unfortunates were living on the same world 10,000 years later?

/insert notsureifserious.jpeg

I'll bite anyway...

1. Did you read the first 2 books? They are far softer and easier to identify with specifically because we do not (to my recollection) see the cast in their more natural state, as we see them in this book. While I think this book could stand on its own, it works better after the first 2, especially the second book imo, gives the cast more depth.

2. ADB really pushes the "these guys are not people, they are not morally grey, and you should not like them" angle in this book. There is no point to the slaughter, at all, other then to give the Claws some release, and we find, give Talos some measure of purpose in his own eyes if anything.

3. Perhaps your not an HH fan either? Its pretty much essential to the mythos/setting in my opinion and you wont really get the motivation of Talos (which is altogether different from the next Night Lord, and the next, and the next...) if you dont buy in to the HH concept, by the end of the novel I think Talos is pretty close to a stand-in mentally for Night Haunter. I dont see Talos as trying to avenge his primarch at all, he already did that, but instead to 'reteach the lesson'.

I pretty much sped through the book, and think it wrapped up a lot of the threads very well.

Decimus seems like a pretty epic bad ass as well, wonder if we will get a book about him.

[shadowhawk2008]

I borrowed this from a friend. Didn't think much of the main cast. The utterly pointless atrocity near the beginning really made me despise them. They gained nothing from that. The only crime those civilians had committed was to unknowingly be on the same world where Curze died. And for that, Talos and co. killed them in hideous ways.

Honestly, Talos' obsession with hurting the Imperium and avenging Curze just seem really weird. Ok, so your father died. My father died too, but I got over it. Honestly, for superhumans, they're a bunch of whiny emo bitches.

Hell, Curze hated their guts and wanted to die. Why get so angry about it? It's not like he was ever fatherly, or in any way caring. He even admitted to Talos before he kicked the bucket that he didn't give a rat's ass what happened to them once he was dead. Why get so angry that some random unfortunates were living on the same world 10,000 years later?

Real life is totally equitable to fiction isn't it? Have you lived for a century yet? Were you taken from your pre-teen days with your mother and turned into a superhuman killing machine? Do you have bio-engineered implants inside of you? Did you take part in the conquering of a galaxy? Did you feel betrayed by the leader of your race and fight against him on Humanity's homeworld? Did you lose your Primarch to an assassin? Have you harboured resentment and anger for a century, in the company of nearly a hundred other such individuals and been led by a man who has been possessed by a daemon and doesn't really give a rat's **** about you?

There is a lot of backstory to the Tenth Company that unfolds over the course of three novels and several short stories, plus an audio. If you haven't read Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver, I would REALLY suggest you do so. Void Stalker isn't really going to make sense without that.

[stormblade]

Real life is totally equitable to fiction isn't it? Have you lived for a century yet? Were you taken from your pre-teen days with your mother and turned into a superhuman killing machine? Do you have bio-engineered implants inside of you? Did you take part in the conquering of a galaxy?

That should've made him less of a whiny emo though.

[shadowhawk2008]

That should've made him less of a whiny emo though.

Talos is hardly "whiny emo" if you actually read the series and move past the surface details. And even then,he hardly appeared as that to me when I first read Soul Hunter.

[Alan]

That should've made him less of a whiny emo though.

I wouldnt call them emos, truth is that mostly space marines are taken from families, worlds, etc at pretty young age so, at least that is my opinion, they have emotional dysfunctional problem although physically full-grown killing machines.
Night Lords are no different than that, what makes things even worse is that the only fatherly figure they can remember or take care off didnt give a **** about them. Loyalist have distant corpse-emperor to worship and send prayers to but Night Lords dont have anything.
About butchery they commit; dont forget that they are traitors who have done even scarier things in the past and slaughtered countless worlds. The only "logical" thing to do is to get rid of those people from surface of their second home (dont tell me you expected them to live together or to return them to imperial space).
P.S. I hope my post is understandable because I am not native english speaker so sometimes its difficult to get point to the audience.

[Alan]

*once is enough*

[Wyrmwood]

Indeed. Early on, Void Stalker (not that the book is alive... Right?) makes a point of noting that prospective Astartes are taken as children, and then transformed into something not quite human. What this means in practice, is that they're emotionally stunted creatures that can switch between child-like passion and curiosity one minute, and hard-wired cunning and inhuman leaps of logic and general thought process the next. I don't have a psychology degree, but surely that explains well enough why the space marines are the way that they are. The waters are even murkier with the modern chapters, as their indoctrination processes are far more thorough.

But anyway, you have Chaos Space Marines (or in this case, Night Lords) largely freed from the regimented training, meditation and such; revealing a largely broken child with who knows how many personality disorders in a giant's body exposed to the horrors of the galaxy, and his own past actions. Surely that is as 'grimdark' as it gets, nothing 'emo' about it.

[ThePope]

Just finished this, it was an utterly stunning book. I thought Talos acting in his own way as a Mirror for Night Haunter was brilliant. The human touches were outstanding, the image of the ship rat being protected by a dread who was from a legion of the Nightlords backround was a highlight for me. Would like to add I was genuinely sad at the last bit involving Uzas, he ended up for me suddenly turning from one of the most loathed characters to one of the most liked.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2

[Dead.Blue.Clown]

The utterly pointless atrocity near the beginning really made me despise them. They gained nothing from that.

Well, they had their reasons, it's just that by human reasoning, they weren't exactly relatable reasons. They were frustrated demigods who were letting off steam by killing something, which by their standards, is what most of them want to do with their lives - as based on their published lore). What's important, however, is that what you just described (and didn't like) is exactly what the Night Lords do - indeed, what they're all about. In a direct quote from their Index Astartes article:

"Night Haunter's legion have no holy crusade, no belief that causes them to spread murder and misery to the worlds they visit..." "Observational evidence would suggest that the only reason the Night Lords fight is for the love of killing and the material rewards this can bring. They take great pleasure in gunning down defenceless prey, especially those too young and sick to stand up to them."

[Londinium]

I've just finished reading it and thought it was excellent, slightly better than Blood Reaver I'd say. I thought the first half was a little weaker than BR but the second half was easily the best part of the trilogy and tied things up really well. I'm going to drop heavy spoilers (no worse than the rest of the thread mind) in my comments here, so if you haven't read the book yet, really don't read this post because you'll be doing yourself a disservice.

Firstly having not read The Core (although I read a quick internet synopsis of it to fill in some gaps) I was surprised that the novel didn't pick up right at the end of Blood Reaver. I was actually expecting VS to be a tale of how using the Echo of Damnation, and having finally got rid of the Exalted, Talos went about reforming his warband and bringing them closer to Curze's teachings. Purifying the Night Lords after the excesses and degredation of the Exalted's rule. While I was looking forwards to that, I think the story we actually got was far better and it seems like the 'reformation' might now occur during the Thirteenth Black Crusade..or at least start.

I wasn't too sure about Talos' characterisation during the first half of the novel, it just seemed a little off considering how much more brutal he was even compared to BR and SH. For the first third of the book I was really wondering what the hell was up with it even though there were still flashes of the more traditional Talos. Don't get me wrong, I know he's a Night Lord and brutal as hell when needs be but he seemed to just be acting brutal for the sake of it, rather than for an end. However once it was revealed that Talos' body was suffering and breaking down, the obvious parallels with his Primarch became apparent, with the exception that unlike Curze, Talos was never totally taken over by the affliction. Which I found to be a nice spin on the Night Haunter's story. Talos flirted with the same path, starting to stray from the ethos of extreme fear to instill obedience to inflicting fear just for the sake of it but ultimately in the final act redeemed himself.

I love the whole idea of some poor colonisation fleet getting lost and ending up on Tsagulasa and eking out a horrible living for decades without anyone even knowing or caring that they're there and furthermore without them knowing the significance of the planet. For some random reason throughout reading the book I pictured 'Darcharna' like the planet from 'Aliens' just on a larger scale. It was awesome to get a bit of detail about 'The Scouring' aswell, seeing what the Night Lords were doing after Curze died and seeing the Ultramarines and Primogenitors basically acting as one Legion even post Codex. I think it's the first bit of Scouring information we've had since the Index Astartes articles.

I loved the one line throw away reference to the inter legion wars with the Emperor's Children that Lucoryphus makes. I really hope ADB gets his chance with the proposed 'Rise of Abaddon' series, to see the inter legion wars happen would be awesome. As an aside I also liked how much more creepy those Night Lord Raptors got with their cannibalism and other stuff. The Bleeding Eyes seem like probably the most Chaotic element of the Night Lords so it's kinda weird how lucid Lucoryphus tends to be.

As mentioned earlier that talk between Talos and Uzas about the dog is really, really good. Perhaps the best character moment in the trilogy, overshadowing even all the Septimus/Octavia stuff; and what about Uzas? What was a one dimensional character in Soul Hunter who I didn't have much care for, has over the course of Blood Reaver and Void Stalker morphed into probably the most tragic of First Claw. I really enjoyed his arc and knew exactly what was coming when he stood over Cyrion and began their final confrontation. Cyrion on the other hand emerges as perhaps the least likable member even if he shows remorse in the end.

Jain Zar was awesome. Although I don't go in for Warseer's constant moaning about the Eldar being punching bags, it was cool to see a Phoenix Lord absolutely kicking ass and munching her way through the best part of four claws of the Night Lords.

...and what about that cliffhanger? I mean you could see it coming from miles away but it was still a totally awesome moment to end on. Although considering I usually like shocking/sad ends to movies/novels, I strangely found myself wishing that Octavia/Septimus had managed to avoid Variel forever.

Probably the only problem I had with the whole novel was the way that Octavia/Septimus just forgave Talos for his extremity. He made her murder in cold blood nineteen people. In SH and BR, Talos had always been very firm but also fair with Octavia, giving her much more slack and understanding than you'd expect. Then what he makes her do is downright nasty. If she'd been expecting something like that from him then I'd understand but the fact he's always treated her quite well, even intervening with stuff like the Void Born, would have made that action even worse in her eyes. I'm not sure I buy her forgiving Talos, nor going along with Septimus attempting to save him.

In summary I actually think SH/BR/VS is the best BL trilogy. Some elements of the HH series top it (ATS and TFH) but nothing else that has been put out in the last fifteen years and yes I include stuff like Gaunt's Ghosts and Eisenhorn in that. I'm really looking forward to whatever Aaron writes next.

[DarthMcBob]

@ADBC

Oh, I know. I don't blame you. I think you're a pretty good writer. I just don't like the Night Lords, and the way you portray them doesn't help much. One of my biggest issues is why they seem so attached to daddy dearest when he publicly admitted he didn't give a **** about them. If my father had been like that, I'd have danced in the streets the day he died. Certainly I wouldn't travel across the galaxy to hit a target of no military value and get myself and my brothers killed because he died there.

I did really like the scene of Ruven talking to Talos near the start in his vision. I liked how Ruven pretty much said everything Talos believed in was total BS, and that even most of the Night Lords and Curze (sometimes) didn't believe it. I appreciate honesty.

[Londinium]

@ADBC

Oh, I know. I don't blame you. I think you're a pretty good writer. I just don't like the Night Lords, and the way you portray them doesn't help much. One of my biggest issues is why they seem so attached to daddy dearest when he publicly admitted he didn't give a **** about them. If my father had been like that, I'd have danced in the streets the day he died. Certainly I wouldn't travel across the galaxy to hit a target of no military value and get myself and my brothers killed because he died there.

Clearly you don't know much about human psychology then. The whole stern unloving father/child desperate to get respect or attention from him trope has been around in fiction and in real life forever. So many people spend half their lifetimes trying to please their parents and failing, yet still go on trying to do it. Indeed many of the most screwed up people in history have had parent issues. The fact is that the Night Lords were raised and indoctrinated into a community where the Night Haunter was revered as a god and as the epitome of what their Legion stood for. They followed him first and foremost, not the Emperor, even when he started to slip and lose his sanity. Living your whole life trying to live up to the teachings of your idol and trying to gain his respect, just to be told by him that he couldn't give a **** about you and he basically thinks you're trash would be devastating. Some went one way and just spiralled into the abyss, others like Talos spend the rest of their life trying to change things and trying to become what the Night Haunter wanted of them because in that way they can regain some respect and satisfaction even if Konrad is long since dead.

[shadowhawk2008]

@ADBC

Oh, I know. I don't blame you. I think you're a pretty good writer. I just don't like the Night Lords, and the way you portray them doesn't help much. One of my biggest issues is why they seem so attached to daddy dearest when he publicly admitted he didn't give a **** about them. If my father had been like that, I'd have danced in the streets the day he died. Certainly I wouldn't travel across the galaxy to hit a target of no military value and get myself and my brothers killed because he died there.

I did really like the scene of Ruven talking to Talos near the start in his vision. I liked how Ruven pretty much said everything Talos believed in was total BS, and that even most of the Night Lords and Curze (sometimes) didn't believe it. I appreciate honesty.

And this is why it helps to know just what the nature of the Night Lords and their "father" and "grandfather" really is and what setting they are a part of.

[violenceha]

An excellent read, the tragic villians are always the most interesting, you know from the start there'll be no happy ending.
First book to ever make me wonder

if it's hard for a writer to kill his creation.

ADB, I owe you a beer.

[Sandlemad]

Really enjoyed this, though Blood Reaver sticks with me more ('Empire Strikes Back' style, I think...).

It's interesting how those who survived to be at the council with Decimus, Variel and Lucoryphus, were the ones who never really cared one way or another about Talos' views on the legion. This is all down to the Prophet now. Loved the reveal at the end, even if it doesn't really bode well for poor old Septimus and Octavia...

Also: can we presume Jain Zar's body is just going to stay on Tsagualsa, scorched and flattened, until some random exarch comes by?

[TheMav80]

One of the things I really liked was how ignorant all the humans were of the great mythology of the 40K universe. Stuff we take for granted.

When Malcharion is speaking to Marlonah and she asks "What's a primarch?" So great.

[Londinium]

One of the things I really liked was how ignorant all the humans were of the great mythology of the 40K universe. Stuff we take for granted.

When Malcharion is speaking to Marlonah and she asks "What's a primarch?" So great.

Well that's more because she's been stuck on Night Lords ships for ages and probably came from some random backwater place. Plenty of people within the Imperium actually know about the Primarchs (well Loyalist ones anyway) as they are venerated as saints. Guilliman's status corpse attracts millions of pilgrims a year, Sanguinius has a public holiday devoted to him etc.