zoanthrope and death or glory

[Khorneflakes]

can a zoanthrope do a death or glory psychic shot against a tank that is tank shocking it?

[lantzkev]

I think the death or glory rules are pretty clear about the only two types of attacks allowed. (ie this is not one of those two)

[lantzkev]

(although personally I'd think that they should be able to, rules say otherwise)

[Khorneflakes]

thanks man, was thinking that too. hey can you send me a copy of your grey knight list?

[lantzkev]

It depends on the mood and what points I'm playing at. I'll tell you right now it's generally a henchman squad with coteaz in it (two monkeys, two servitors w/h bolters and 8 psykers) and some dreadknights, strike squads, assassins, and a dreadnought or two.

[don_mondo]

Not sure I agree with lantzkev. It IS a shooting attack, which is one of the two types allowed.

[DoctorTom]

A psychic shooting attack is still a type of shooting attack.

[Konovalev]

A psychic shooting attack is still a type of shooting attack.

This. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be allowed. Psychic shooting is a subset of shooting and shooting is allowed.

[wyvirn]

The DoG rules say something along the lines of '... may take a single shot with a weapon it is carrying...', and psychic powers are not carried weapons...

[don_mondo]

"The attack can be either a shot from a weapon carried by the model". That does seem to say no psychic shooting, altho with the new rules requiring to hit rolls for PSA, I'd tend to be more willing to allow it anyways. After all, the psyker is 'carrying' it's ability, is it not? But good catch.

[DoctorTom]

The DoG rules say something along the lines of '... may take a single shot with a weapon it is carrying...', and psychic powers are not carried weapons...

Sure they are - the psyker's carrying them in his brain.

[wyvirn]

Sure they are - the psyker's carrying them in his brain.

Honestly, do you think that this argument would win over anyone who wouldn't let you use it anyways?

[lantzkev]

Where are the psychic shooting attacks listed, in wargear where weapons carried are, or in a "other" section... not there? gee can't use it.

If I was tanking shocking, I'd allow it in most games, but at a tourney I'd go raw and say no for the sake of winning. In a league? I'd let it be do a death or glory as well.

-Not because I think it's legal, but because it's fun-

[Konovalev]

Where are the psychic shooting attacks listed, in wargear where weapons carried are, or in a "other" section... not there? gee can't use it.

If I was tanking shocking, I'd allow it in most games, but at a tourney I'd go raw and say no for the sake of winning. In a league? I'd let it be do a death or glory as well.

-Not because I think it's legal, but because it's fun-

Where does it say that death or glory can only be carried out with items listed in the wargear section of a codex?

[Khorneflakes]

we played it that it was safer to not tank shock and ignore it. i asked cos i was curious how others would play it. im in the camp where you could use it, it was my zoan getting run over by a chimera

[Vipoid]

Sure they are - the psyker's carrying them in his brain.

Actually, in the case of a Zoanthrope, I'd say that its brain is carrying it.

[lantzkev]

Where does it say that death or glory can only be carried out with items listed in the wargear section of a codex?

no where, it just says a weapon they are carrying, which are only in the wargear section... so yeah...

[TAU AIR CASTE]

The thing is it says the model can make a single shot or a single attack using a weapon the model is carrying. By your logic a tomb spyder or daemon prince etc would not be able to death or glory a tank with a combat attack as they are not carrying a weapon? I don't think anyone would play it that way.

Imo you should be able to use a psychic shooting attack.

[lantzkev]

no, it says shoot or a melee from a weapon they are carrying.

Daemon prince carries a melee weapon I believe. Even if they aren't we can assume if it can make said attacks without a specific weapon carried because all models are assumed to use whatever is at hand as a melee weapon...

Again though, no exception is mentioned to a narrow set of criteria (IE requires a weapon) you could through the above interpretation view it as having a weapon, or you could be totally literal in your reading and say it does not and thus can't. There is however even less arguing room to say a psychic attack is able to. Specifically there's no exception allowing the psychic attack to be done out of turn (or more than once a turn too, although in this case it most likely won't have another psychic attack this turn anyhow)

I'd allow it personally, but rules wise there is nothing that even really hints that it is allowed.

[SacredCow]

I enjoy RAW discussions. They can be good times. PSA's count as weapons as per their description in the BRB. They would also count as being "carried" as per the definition of the word carry. I am omitting the part of the definition that uses the word "carry" when referring to an object. I am including the part of the definition of the word "carry" when used without an object.

car·ry
   [kar-ee] Show IPA verb, -ried, -ry·ing, noun, plural -ries.

verb (used without object)
31. to act as a bearer or conductor.
32. to have or exert propelling force.
33. to be transmitted, propelled, or sustained: My voice carries farther than his.
34. (of a horse) to bear the head in a particular manner while in action: The horse carries well.

Seems pretty clear that the PSA is indeed "carried" as the zoanthrope would definitely act as a bearer or conductor in regards to the non-object PSA.