People would just complain about a WD book, first that it sucks, then that its broken just like Sisters of battle.
I'd rather have someone who actually wanted to write the Wood Elf book work on it when they got inspired as opposed to someone being forced into the book due to "consumer pressure" or what-have-you.
I'll be patient and see what happens to the Woodies. The last thing I want is a half-assed book from someone who doesn't care about the army's place in Warhammer.
Do people want a rushed out or bodge army book (and then have to deal with that for another 6 years) or do they want a well crafted, well written one (which is probably scheduled for release in under 2 years time). I know which option I prefer and for this reason I'm not signing the petition.
Sent from my Astropath using Tele Talk
I am the creator of this petition, and I thank whoever posted this here. I'm not here to say any of you are wrong, I'm here to say that the "un-popular" armies are that way for one main reason, they're underpowered, I dont want to sit here and whine, thats not the purpose. I logged onto forms all over the place an what I saw annoyed me, all people did was complain and say what they didn't have, and it bothered me, so rather then join them I just decided to try and let the people who can do something know what everyone's been saying. If you are against this petition, there is nothing forcing you to sign it, and nothing to make you have to try and stop people from signing it. I live in a democratic nation, and GW is based in a democratic nation, so I'm going to do my best to put that democracy to work.
@danny1995? Bretonnia is rather powerfull, its not popular because its unique, just like dwarfs and WE's are unique. You can go from most armies and just pick up another without much change in tactics, these three make you have to come up with very unique strategies that only fit them. I have a feeling that the main reason these books have been left alone for so long is GW wants to keep them unique and is stumped as to how to do it. Just look at the outcry for Brets to be more like the Empire(get more infantry), the WE's to be more like high elves, and the Dwarfs to get monsters. That might be some of the reasons why they have been delayed so long.
Actually most wood elf players/Brettonia/ Dwarfs got attracted to that army because of the army's unique play style and fluff. I know that's what happened to me with my woodies, cool background unique style, then...POOF! Realized I couldn't win a game when I used the coolest units. Every army has it's whiners but wood elf players are some of the few who have a right to whine. If anyone says wood elves are a strong army then you have to realize that your opponent is probably a third more skilled than you are.
This petition is meant to have our voice heard by GW not to kick them in the teeth and say, "Get your face back together and write a new wood elf book by Tuesday. Punk!" we need to at least try to let them know that we have an opinion and are not just mindless consumers.
P.S. I would think that uniqueness would actually support popularity not squash it.
And what you've said is not entirely true. You can't play wood elves like any army right now, because we don't have fair point values, but if we were to balance, a horde of eternal guard would be just as good as any other armies hordes. Dwarves now also play very much like one style of empire, gunline, and even if you do do this they often lose. I have seen dozens of people who own and use to play these armies but have shelved them because they arent effective, not because they found them hard to start, i found wood elves very easy to start truthfully, the idea of just avoid everything makes perfect sense.
I think Duke Ramulots has a very good point that GW took time to develop a unique play style for WEs and if anything the reason their 8th ed release is taking so long is because GW wants to make sure they do it right. Quite a few beastmen players have qualms with their book (which feels like it was pushed out for the sake of being done before 8th came around, was massively detached from the BoC play style, amongst other problems) and I'd hate for WE fans to be afflicted with the same regrets.
To clarify would you rather be stuck with a poor book for another 2 years or another 8 years? This may well be the choice WE players would be offered.
Last edited by Harwammer; 15-02-2012 at 19:04.
Sent from my Astropath using Tele Talk
They should have a white dwarf army list update with a few new models from now til they're real release. They're nigh unplayable right now.
Harwammer I appreciate your comment and I do understand where you are coming from.
Redfurry wood elves aren't unplayable they are just really, really, really, really, really, really, really underpowered.
Just an errata with, "eternal guard, replace point value with 10, glade riders replace points value with 18," Spellsingers can use lore of life or beasts, these things are really easy and would help wood elves weather 8th alot better.
Sign it, PLLLLEEEAAASSSE. Happy now I said please.
Online petitions usually don't add up to much.
If you were serious I suggest you post a real mailing address people could send in legitimate concerns/mail to. Jervis' sounds like a good start.
Although I donīt play Wood Elves myself, Iīve signed the petition, as I find it the most rational thing to do from a gaming perspective. Not because I think that it will have any magical results, but I think that GW, as a business, should have a healthy interest in what its customer base thinks and wishes for the game. Kind of a free marketing research exercise for GW brass.
As to the price arguments developed off topic here, I pretty much doubt that the new kiddie focus can really compensate the financial loss of alienating the veteran players. Warhammer is a hobby for adults. Iīve eyed it as a teen for a long while, but only got really into it as a productive adult. And thatīs the case of 85% of the gamers I know. Iīve over 2000 pounds of hobby stuff and do spend on average more than 50,00 pounds a month on it (mostly non-gw after the "embargo" to ROW) and will keep doing it for a good while. Thatīs a lot of cash to compensate with occasional birthday and christmas gifts.
Pictures of my Druchii and Rohirrim armies:
But aren't there only a handful of guys writing these rulebooks? Like 4-6 or something? All their allegiances and biases are already set in stone... are we just supposed to wait until a lifelong WE player gets promoted within the design studio? It's more than reasonable to expect them to develop rules for the sake of a healthy overall game system rather than glory for their preferred race. Furthermore, I get the impression that even though one name gets top billing on the inside cover of a book, the actual rules development is more of a committee process. So, again, waiting for an ordained WE messiah to waltz in seems kind of naive and crazy.
Rather than a specific author I think it's more of a case of waiting for the Design Studio having any good ideas what to do about Wood Elves. They have never been a comfortable fit with Warhammer. Their supposed playstyle just doesn't match that well meaning they have tended to be either really annoying, underpowered (or both) or just highly situational. The idea of making them rules dependent on forest terrain is one example of an idea that sounds neat, but just doesn't work very well on the table (and hence the "fix" of giving them a free forest, etc.). So yeah, rushing them is almost certainly not going to result in a very good product. They need a lot of work to fit well into Warhammer, always have.
But when's the last time a book came out with a rule or overall philosophy that truly made you go, "Wow! I never envisioned that... these guys are brilliant!". There's only so much you can do within the overall framework of the game system, and every time a book comes out it's basically a potluck mix of many of the very same changes that had preceded the book's arrival in countless wishlist threads across the various internet forums.
I simply don't think that any amount of waiting/pondering/thumb-twiddling is going to bear out some spectacular & wholly unexpected design ethos that will make them work in 8th while still keeping a totally unique playstyle. It seems to me that, ultimately, no matter how long they wait, the solution is going to be the same thing... improved archery across the board, a couple of mainstay ranked units like Eternal Guard and Dryads, and some kind of army-specific rule(s) that improves skirmishers and/or baiting/redirecting units. I have no faith in the idea that there's some unforeseen magic bullet waiting to be discovered by the designers.
I just keep thinking of the 7th edition Orcs and Goblins book...where the author stated he didn't even like greenskins or some such rot.
There might only be a handful of authors, but I'd like to think they still look at the various books as projects they want to do as opposed to projects they have to do. Multiple people might work together to build something, but I think there's an overall level of inspiration working there - someone needs to have the "hey, wouldn't it be cool if this army had..." going on.
Read the author's notes in White Dwarf and you can usually get a feel as to whether it was something they wanted to do or something they had to do - the former is always better than the latter.
"just make the Base size reasonable" go go 100mm by 100mm!
"they cannot stop the signal-!"
They are a buisness and have connections with the only other real supplier of models (Forge World) as such they will NEVER drop their prices, we only have them to buy our models from and we won't be able to change that.