Why so much complaining over mark of tzeentch

[Snake1311]

Ward saves should cap at 4+.

The 3+ abusing stuff (not only on chosen btw) is more hax coming from the warshrine than MoT. 4+ ward & stubborn as ONE benefit is just too brutal.

[The bearded one]

I don't like fighting against stormshield-terminators outside of 40K.

[warplock]

I don't have a problem with a 3+ ward (on WoC characters), the only problem is the price combined with the fact that it doesn't eat into their magic slot. Ward saves are costed at 15 points per level, so a 3+ ward save should cost 60 points. WoC get this cheaper and also only have to use 45 points of their magic item allowance (if they want to chance it then can even just take the armour of morrsleib and only spend 35) meaning they can be well protected and extremely killy, which is a bit much in my opinion.

[IcedCrow]

There are a lot of things in the game that can be "a bit too much". That is warhammer.

[Gradek]

This is simply not a big deal and is nothing more than complaining by people who have lost to a 3++ Chosen unit. Getting the 3+ on a unit is exceedingly expensive (at least getting it guaranteed) and it still leaves the unit vulnerable to magic. In order to get a near guarantee to pull this off turn 1, you need Chosen, FoTG, Wailing Banner, and 2 Warshrines. And even then, you have almost as much of a chance of rolling a snake eyes (which cannot be favored away) as you do of the 4+ WS/Stubborn. The simple fix to this "problem" is to disallow FoTG to move a valid result to a re-roll. I find it sad that people complain about an extremely expensive (and not guaranteed) combo for an army that isn't even top 3, when many other armies have far more broken and cheaper units/combos/etc.

[belgarath97]

Actually, straight up, Khorne Warriors with halberds are, statistically, going to win against Tzeentch Warriors with shield. There is room to argue Khorne is better in some circumstances. But they are both so much better a choice than Nurgle and Slaanesh it is not even funny.

[BigbyWolf]

This is simply not a big deal and is nothing more than complaining by people who have lost to a 3++ Chosen unit.

I've never lost to a 3++ Chosen unit, and I still think it should be capped at 4+.

[belgarath97]

I've never lost to a 3++ Chosen unit, and I still think it should be capped at 4+.

You are a lucky man. I believe they can be beat, and I have beaten them. But you know what, in the end I didn't have fun, even when I won. So now when I see someone putting a chosen star on the table, I kindly thank them, shake their hand, and pack up my stuff. I play to have fun, and I don't think the chosenstar is fun. To reemphasize, EVEN WHEN I WIN!

[Dark Aly]

there are two reasons really-
a) there are better ways to represent the mark of tzeentch fluffwise. The ward save bonus just feels tacked on.
b) It is too good for far to few points. As somebody else has stated, before 8th WoC had very limited access to ward saves and therefore it was not much of an issue at all.

I think it's a safe bet that the 3+ ward will be absent when WoC get a new book so enjoy it while you can I suppose.

[Dreadlordpaul]

You are a lucky man. I believe they can be beat, and I have beaten them. But you know what, in the end I didn't have fun, even when I won. So now when I see someone putting a chosen star on the table, I kindly thank them, shake their hand, and pack up my stuff. I play to have fun, and I don't think the chosenstar is fun. To reemphasize, EVEN WHEN I WIN!

so wait if say someone like me plays a mostly tzeench themed army you refuse to play it? im sorry no offence but thats pathetic

there are two reasons really-
a) there are better ways to represent the mark of tzeentch fluffwise. The ward save bonus just feels tacked on.
b) It is too good for far to few points. As somebody else has stated, before 8th WoC had very limited access to ward saves and therefore it was not much of an issue at all.

I think it's a safe bet that the 3+ ward will be absent when WoC get a new book so enjoy it while you can I suppose.

which means in the new book it will be crap and as such my mostly tzeench army will be ruined. im sorry but people have a go at WoC for the 3+ ward but the fact is on characters it isnt too good.

[Tanglewood]

I find it on the contrary. Usually the 3++ Tzeentch chosen star player moans at me about cheese. Curse of the Horned Rat does not discriminate between Chosen or skele warriors. It's an equal opportunity spell.

[BigbyWolf]

You are a lucky man. I believe they can be beat, and I have beaten them. But you know what, in the end I didn't have fun, even when I won. So now when I see someone putting a chosen star on the table, I kindly thank them, shake their hand, and pack up my stuff. I play to have fun, and I don't think the chosenstar is fun. To reemphasize, EVEN WHEN I WIN!

Yeah, it's definitely a boring way to play the game. I've only faced one once, and just ran away from it while picking off other things.

I'm more concerned about the characters (although certainly less terrifying than the Chosenstar, they're the only ones that I face on a regular basis). Really, the Tzeentch bonus started when WoC didn't have access to a 4+ ward for their characters, so it wasn't really an issue.

so wait if say someone like me plays a mostly tzeench themed army you refuse to play it? im sorry no offence but thats pathetic.

Please read the post- he was referring to the Chosenstar, nothing to do with a Tzeentch themed army. I run a Tzeentch themed army myself, and even I would look for a different opponent before I face that one-trick pony.

which means in the new book it will be crap and as such my mostly tzeench army will be ruined. im sorry but people have a go at WoC for the 3+ ward but the fact is on characters it isnt too good.

Your entire army would be ruined if they had a slightly worse ward save? Seriously? To paraphrase your earlier quote: I'm sorry, no offence. But thats pathetic.

[Gunless Ganger]

which means in the new book it will be crap and as such my mostly tzeench army will be ruined. im sorry but people have a go at WoC for the 3+ ward but the fact is on characters it isnt too good.

You're right - everything in Warhammer that DOESN'T have a 3+ ward save is just crap.

This is where you realize how ridiculous and overeactive that sounded and we all have a good laugh together.

[TsukeFox]

The problem is there is nothing negative to counter balance the powerful positive.

Skaven have a one time 3+ ward and once used it causes stupid.

Tzeentch ward save just makes "terminator" like characters & units.
At which Point the only tactical hope is that your opponent rolls poorly

[Dreadlordpaul]

Yeah, it's definitely a boring way to play the game. I've only faced one once, and just ran away from it while picking off other things.

I'm more concerned about the characters (although certainly less terrifying than the Chosenstar, they're the only ones that I face on a regular basis). Really, the Tzeentch bonus started when WoC didn't have access to a 4+ ward for their characters, so it wasn't really an issue.



Read the post- he was referring to the Chosenstar, nothing to do with a Tzeentch themed army. I run a Tzeentch themed army myself, and even I would look for a different opponent before I face that one-trick pony.

ii was refering to the fact i plan to include tzeench chosen in my army to serve as my chaos lords bodyguard

Your entire army would be ruined if they had a slightly worse ward save? Seriously? To paraphrase your earlier quote:

yes my army relies on being able to get good wards as my regular oponents take both high strength attacks and stuff that i dont get armour against

[The Low King]

yes my army relies on being able to get good wards as my regular oponents take both high strength attacks and stuff that i dont get armour against

You mean the things every army in the game has to deal with without the use of good wards?

[BigbyWolf]

yes my army relies on being able to get good wards as my regular oponents take both high strength attacks and stuff that i dont get armour against

And a 4+ ward isn't good?

[Dreadlordpaul]

You mean the things every army in the game has to deal with without the use of good wards?

yes but most other armies aint paying 16 points per model for one of their core units

[TheOneHawk]

Because most armies have to use their special allowance to get something as good as Chaos Warriors.

[Dreadlordpaul]

yes but most other armies have a way to deal with high strength units outside of combat and magic