What's next for 40k. [CLOSED]

[Schelle]

Any news on the Chaos codex being hardback? Because that would totally make my day

[MajorWesJanson]

This is much in the vein i have being thinking though I'll go so far as to say that IMO the toy they will share will be a flyer that isn't the Stormraven and that there will eventually be a third SM flyer shared by BT & SW.

Initially the WD spine thing made me think that perhaps DA would be first but based on things posted in the DA thread it seems as if that whole picture will be DA and if like has been speculated it is the codex cover it actually makes much more sense that DA would be released towards the end of the year.

God I feel like I'm picking on you Wes which isn't my intent....




But in light of you making posts such as this:

In the DA rumours thread no less.....

That perhaps your allowing your desires to influence your conclusions just a wee bit.

I mean I'm sure DA players could provide just as many justifications as to why DA deserve a "proper" 6th ed HB book more than Chaos do. It a very subjective concept really.

Maybe. It just seems to me that the major antagonist of the setting is far more influential than a variant list of the main protagonist. It could be that I'm being biased, but I'd like to think it is more to do with having heard a lot more about CSM coming up, while DA having a book at all is only speculation from them being in the starter. I know it isn't self interest, as I don't play CSM at all, personally, while I could use DA models to mix in with my own Marine chapter.

Still, we have heard rumors from reliable sources about CSM getting a book, and specific models. All we know with high reliability about DA is that they are in the starter.

[Druchii Monkey]

I got a fairly fat hint at the end of last year from a good source that both DA and BT were not ones to look at getting into then. The rough of it was they were both very likely to change this year. The impression I got was that both codexes would get re-done.

Just as a thought, does anyone think DA and BT could both get incorporated into a new generic SM codex with a picture of a DA on the front? I reckon this is unlikely - too much material - i'm hoping with the codexes we get CSM followed by DA around the time of the starter box then BT at the end of the year followed by xenos early next.

The other thought i had was the mirroring of 40K to Fantasy and wondered about the following: CSM/Warriors of Chaos (Q2 2012), Tau + Demiurge/Dwarves (Q1 2013), Dark Elves / Eldar (Q3 2013). Probably quite tenuous, just interested that some of the 40K and Fantasy armies we have the strongest rumours for have overlap.

[Chadjabdoul]

Tomb Kings, Necrons, Vampire Counts in the space of... 8 months?
Anyway it will happen with Chaos too, not too sure about after that...

[ForgottenLore]

I got a fairly fat hint at the end of last year from a good source that both DA and BT were not ones to look at getting into then. The rough of it was they were both very likely to change this year. The impression I got was that both codexes would get re-done.

That is the best time to get into a new army though. You start the army and get the basics bought, assembled and painted; play with them a bit and then just as you start getting tired of them...BAM new codex with lots of new shiny stuff. Just a modicum of common sense can tell you what units are likely to get new models and should be avoided.

I've always thought starting a new army just as its codex is being released is a terrible idea. You have to spend so much effort on the basics that there is no time to invest int he cool new stuff until the WOW factor has worn off. Of course, I don't much understand starting a new army every year or two anyway.

[Draconis]

Wonder if CSM will finally get drop pods..

[Draconis]

No, those are FW drop pods. And for the majority of things, you can't use FW rules unless allowed. I'm also not going to spend 88 pounds for something loyalists get in their codex that costs them $25

[Hokiecow]

What are you complaining about?? You buy a loyalist models, add spikes, paint dark colors, and Wallah! You have a chaos model!

[lantzkev]

Difference between chaos and space marines? maybe more skulls, and more spikey bits like he said...

In all fairness you asked when they'd get them, not when gamesworkshop would make a plastic kit of them that you wanted.

[Raibaru]

maybe instead of drop pods chaos will get generic warp in treatment like the DOW and Space Marine game.

[Denny]

Just as a thought, does anyone think DA and BT could both get incorporated into a new generic SM codex with a picture of a DA on the front?

Only if that Dark Angel is crying and in the process of re-painting his armour ultramarine blue . . .

[sycopat]

This is going to piss off the Unforgiven players, but I could see the DA and BT getting folded into a codex SM, particularly if there is a return to a more 'trait selection' system.

The Dark Angels don't seem to be codex divergent enough to warrant their own codex. Their special formations are a bike formation and a terminator formation (and The Deathwing shouldn't count: First Company is usually a terminator formation in the background => Not special.) Both formations could be accounted for with a special character unlock/trait selection system.

Similarly for the Black Templars, although they're slightly more divergent.

Do I see this happening to either? Maybe to one set, but probably not to both.

[DEADMARSH]

Just as a thought, does anyone think DA and BT could both get incorporated into a new generic SM codex with a picture of a DA on the front? I reckon this is unlikely - too much material - i'm hoping with the codexes we get CSM followed by DA around the time of the starter box then BT at the end of the year followed by xenos early next.

I had a similar thought browsing this thread- since DA and codex SM aren't really all that different, maybe they're going to replace the Ultras on the cover? It's certainly plausible with the special characters unlocking modified FOCs trend. One could represent the deathwing and ravenwing, and Marines get their 6th ed codex on time.

Could be even the BT rumors stuff ends up in that book... They could have Grimaldus (or similar) unlock the mixed squads deal. Or just retcon it so that the neophytes are just basically scouts now.

[Orphic]

This is going to piss off the Unforgiven players, but I could see the DA and BT getting folded into a codex SM, particularly if there is a return to a more 'trait selection' system.

The Dark Angels don't seem to be codex divergent enough to warrant their own codex. Their special formations are a bike formation and a terminator formation (and The Deathwing shouldn't count: First Company is usually a terminator formation in the background => Not special.) Both formations could be accounted for with a special character unlock/trait selection system.

Similarly for the Black Templars, although they're slightly more divergent.

Do I see this happening to either? Maybe to one set, but probably not to both.

On one hand, I agree about the Dark Angels. On the other, I'd have said the same about the Blood Angels before their new codex came out and gave them the new toys/units.

[SunTzu]

I play Deathwing and intend to expand that to a full DA army when the time comes. (Probably when the 6th Ed boxed set arrives).

The simple truth of the matter is that if you make Belial and Sammael special characters in the main Space Marines Codex (the former allowing Terminators as troops, the latter allowing bikes as troops with homing beacon upgrades) then hey presto, C:SM completely replaces C: DA. In terms of army list anyway - there's still the background of course. But to all intents and purposes there's barely anything else (significantly) different about them in the rules.

Salamanders, Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists don't get their own Codex, they just get C:SM plus a special character with a "Chapter Tactics" rule so you can theme your list as desired. I'm a DA player, and it's obvious even to me that DAs could trivially be handled the same way. (Many DA players may object that we lose our unique book, and the fluff might get stripped down to the bare essentials; but OTOH we'd never be left behind by future C:SM updates as happens every time now, and the fluff would still exist, even if less of it was printed in the Codex).

[gunmnky]

Really, they don't diverge?

Dark Angels have 19 total unique units and 8 Characters. CSM has 30 unique units and 16 Characters. That means a codex chapter uses almost twice the number of unit types than the Dark Angels are able to field. Furthermore, Deathwing and Ravenwing units are made for the specialized task of hunting the fallen, not conventional warfare, so yes, they do count as codex deviation. Then you have techmarines who are assigned to specific non-transport vehicles that are deployed, scouts are elites, deathwing mix and match wargear, landspeeders are in squadrons of 5, we don't get attack bikes, we don't get redeemer cannons, our company veterans are more flexible (can be either sternguard or vanguard, minus the jump packs or special rounds) etc.

The illusion that DA don't diverge much is because our codex has been used as a prototype dex since 3rd ed, and the steal everything out of it to give to csm. For example, the entire army use to get stubborn. Now only csm get it. HQ units use to get st6 power weapons, now honor guard get them. DA use to get plasma cannons in their tac squads, now CSM get them. Deathwing use to get landraiders as transport options, now csm get them. Ravenwing bikes as troops was a unique option, now csm can do it. Seeing a pattern here?

And BT are only slightly more divergent than DA?

They're one of the most divergent chapters in the game. They're rumored to have over 15,000 marines in a single chapter ffs.

Oh, and the first company is NOT a terminator formation in any other chapter's background. DA have 100 suits of tactical dreadnought armor compared to the usual number of 50. Where do you think your sterngaurd and vanguard come from?

[Draconis]

What are you complaining about?? You buy a loyalist models, add spikes, paint dark colors, and Wallah! You have a chaos model!

With no rules.

[Azzy]

The only reason I brought it up at all, and again maybe shouldn't have, was because someone doubted that it was getting released this year and said they didn't expect it to come out for another couple of years. Honestly I was a little gobsmacked, but I guess I shouldn't be.

Heh. I remember when the rumors for 5e were in full swing and there was a board dedicated to it... There was some bloke who was so vehement and resolute that 5e was just a myth and would be out for years... I think I even screencapped the post. Not long afterwards GW officially announced 5e.

[Nurgling Chieftain]

That's what they did for 5th, for all intents and purposes, Chaos Daemons were the first real 5th edition codex. They even used terminology that didn't make any sense until the 5th Edition book came out.

I remember that. For a short period of time, we really weren't sure how to play "assault grenades", because in 4th edition the two grenade types that became combined as "assault grenades" had different effects.

[mcfishstick]

What will happen is obvious. Dark Angels will become the poster boys for the generic space marine codex. And will quickly be obsoleted when CODEX ULTRAMARINES is released just after.

lol