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Thread: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

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  1. #1
    Commander BBWags's Avatar
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    Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    I haven't played 40k in a while. After 5th edition came out I gravitated to FB and have really been enjoying that. However, in light of an impending 6th edition, I thought I'd take a gander at some of the newer 40k armies. GK had always caught my eye; not just because of the fluff, but because the idea of a super elite army that really could defeat 2 or 3 times it's number on the field has always appealed to me. Most every game I play, I try to win against insurmountable odds. It is the most epic way to win.

    Having said that... Grey Knights. How have they been received in the current meta. I know the rules for 40k, but having been out of touch with the game since space wolves came out, I'm not really sure where GK fit in the current meta.

    Are they actually effective in that ultra elite sense?

    Are they "broken" in any way, for good or I'll? For example, will people roll their eyes when they see me plop down a GK army?

    Where would they be ranked in the competitive scene?

    I guess I'm just looking for an overall feel to the army. I have the dex, but as I mentioned, I feel very out of touch with the overall gaming community, so it's hard for mr to judge the army in relation to it's peers. Anyone feel like helping me out? Thanks!
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  2. #2
    Chapter Master Grimtuff's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    This.

    Will not end well.

    That is all. Do a search and you'll see how vitriolic this topic will get.
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  3. #3
    Commander BBWags's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    Wow. Didn't realize this was a hot topic. Shows how out of touch I've been. I did a search and found the GK tactics thread but it wasn't on the most current 4 pages of thread topics so I figured it was rather defunct...

    So... If I may stoke the fire just a tad, and please remember that I am a neutral party just asking some questions... But, "what's the hubbub, bub?"
    Wood Elves, W/L/D = 4/3/0

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  4. #4
    Chapter Master Project2501's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    GK are very powerful. They will satisfy your desire to have a small elite army that is more than capable of killing more than their 'fair share' of enemies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowheart View Post
    In the real world they wouldn't listen to me in the first place, but in the OP's "what if" scenario, GW is my b-tch and would release Codex: Super Karate Monkey Death Car if I told them to.

  5. #5

    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    Shortly after the Grey Knight codex came out, my local play group was flooded with Grey Knight players. Other MEQ armies found themselves badly outmatched, so much so that many people I know have quit playing altogether, as they're just sick of playing against Grey Knights with what amounts to a severe handicap from the outset: a good Grey Knight army can usually outshoot and out close combat its MEQ competitors.

    Non-MEQ armies may also be affected, but IMO not as severely; for example a Guard army can blast a Grey Knight army off the table much like it would another MEQ opponent.
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    this is probably the first time in the forum someone had to give a definition for "a". Congratulations.

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    Chapter Master Grimtuff's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurgling Chieftain View Post
    Non-MEQ armies may also be affected, but IMO not as severely; for example a Guard army can blast a Grey Knight army off the table much like it would another MEQ opponent.
    Tell that to Tyranids. They're the GK's whipping boys.
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  7. #7

    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    GK are not an autowin (at least not against all armies), but noone would say, you won "against insurmountable odds"

  8. #8

    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    Looks like we found another purifier spam player.

  9. #9
    Commander BBWags's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlar View Post
    Looks like we found another purifier spam player.
    On the contrary, my desire isn't to cheese anything out. Honestly, when I said I wanted to win against insurmountable odds, I was just trying to be poetic. I play this game to have fun, and if I lose by dying a glorious, sacrificial death to stem the tide of evil just a little bit, as long as the game was well fought, that's fine. I don't mind losing. I don't want to press an auto win button. There is no fun in that at all.

    But I guess I'm getting a pretty vivid answer to my question: the community is resentful toward the new GK... at least the meq community is... Unfortunate.
    Last edited by BBWags; 29-02-2012 at 20:38.
    Wood Elves, W/L/D = 4/3/0

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    Librarian Mánagarmr's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by BBWags View Post
    the community is resentful toward the new GK... at least the meq community is... Unfortunate.
    It's hard not to be, honestly. While I will never refuse to play a person, mind you - there is absolutely nothing enjoyable about playing against Grey Knights; especially as a Marine variant. They will out-shoot and out-melee even your dedicated units, and often times, do it for significantly less than you payed.

    It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth, even if you pull out a win.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mánagarmr View Post
    It's hard not to be, honestly. While I will never refuse to play a person, mind you - there is absolutely nothing enjoyable about playing against Grey Knights; especially as a Marine variant. They will out-shoot and out-melee even your dedicated units, and often times, do it for significantly less than you payed.

    It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth, even if you pull out a win.
    Fair enough. Ok, let me ask another question... Or at least come at the situation in a different way. What about the book is broken? Namely, are the troops selections broken? If you played a game against a GK opponent that had a terminator squad and two gkpa units as the core and no more of one choice of any other particular selection (except for vehicles, obviously), then does the MEQ opponent still not stand a chance? Or is it only the elite and fast attack choices that are broken?

    And if someone can enlighten me WITHOUT the venom: what makes the broken units broken?
    Wood Elves, W/L/D = 4/3/0

    Jackin' it up over .500!! Wood Elves rock!

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    Chapter Master Project2501's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by BBWags View Post
    Fair enough. Ok, let me ask another question... Or at least come at the situation in a different way. What about the book is broken? Namely, are the troops selections broken? If you played a game against a GK opponent that had a terminator squad and two gkpa units as the core and no more of one choice of any other particular selection (except for vehicles, obviously), then does the MEQ opponent still not stand a chance? Or is it only the elite and fast attack choices that are broken?

    And if someone can enlighten me WITHOUT the venom: what makes the broken units broken?
    The 'problem' stems from the combinations of a few things IMO.

    The GK's basic gear is quite astonishing by an other army's standards. The bare bones basic PAGK wields a force sword and a storm bolter. Then there's psychic powers on top of that.

    This is put 'over the top' by the upgrades/options they have from there on. Be it force halibards that grant +2 init and are still force weapons to psybolts.

    The points costs of both the basic troops' gear and the upgrades is very 'out-of-whack' compared to what it offers in terms of bonuses for points (they're widely viewed as way way too cheap).

    I love herohammer. I played 3.5ed CSM wordbeaerers with a crazy tooled up DP, and now SWs with a crazy tooled up WL. I am the perfect candidate to move on over to GK, and believe me the desire is there, but I do not because I love the SW codex more. It strikes just the right balance between customization and competitiveness, while actually properly representing Space Marines from the fluff. GKs have units comprised of seemingly only heroes, no 'troops'.

    I do not have any problems with playing against GK or other people playing GK.
    Last edited by Project2501; 29-02-2012 at 21:46.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowheart View Post
    In the real world they wouldn't listen to me in the first place, but in the OP's "what if" scenario, GW is my b-tch and would release Codex: Super Karate Monkey Death Car if I told them to.

  13. #13

    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimtuff View Post
    Tell that to Tyranids.
    I will if I find any. The last hive fleet I saw was wiped out by splinter fire before the Grey Knight codex even hit the shelves.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBWags View Post
    What about the book is broken? ...

    And if someone can enlighten me WITHOUT the venom: what makes the broken units broken?
    Sadly, there's too much to summarize. With Guard, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves, you can sum up what makes them top-tier in just a handful of units each. With Grey Knights, you have things like every non-vehicle model coming with a force weapon and +1Str psychic power standard, and every vehicle coming with a 5 point vehicle "upgrade" that ignores virtually all shaken and stunned results, and another pseudo-optional 5 point vehicle upgrade that increases most weapon strengths by 1. Purifiers, death cult assassins, and "psyfilemen" may typify the most powerful builds, but that's really just piling insult onto injury.
    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorTom View Post
    this is probably the first time in the forum someone had to give a definition for "a". Congratulations.

  14. #14

    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    For Tyranids, a squad of Purifiers counts as a hard counter to everything in our army. Thank god for Shadow in the Warp though.

    Chaos Demons are hilariously good against GK, so long as they survive the shooting to get some Bloodletters into CC.

    IG can wipe them off the table.

    MEQ are basically boned though.

    Take into account that we tend to exaggerate things we dislike, which is the case of GK, but they really are too damn good and their fluff has a lot of abominable stuff in it.

  15. #15

    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimtuff View Post
    Tell that to Tyranids. They're the GK's whipping boys.
    Nids really have pretty much been every 5th edition armies whipping boy (with the exception of vanillas). Its sad but I think their 4th edition book would be more competitive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mánagarmr View Post
    It's hard not to be, honestly. While I will never refuse to play a person, mind you - there is absolutely nothing enjoyable about playing against Grey Knights; especially as a Marine variant. They will out-shoot and out-melee even your dedicated units, and often times, do it for significantly less than you payed.

    It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth, even if you pull out a win.
    I like pulling out a win when I feel outmatched.

    I really don't have a problem with GKs for the most part, but the Inquisitor rules, made for an easy way for GK players to get around their weakness. I think they're the best book right now, but they aren't 3.5 chaos, craftworld supplement Eldar good either.

  16. #16
    Veteran Sergeant KeyOfTwilight's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    I think GK are vastly overrated in their abilities. Sure, a GOOD player can consistently win with the army, and a bad player can win pretty good too with a cheese army, but against a player who knows their army, and knows their opponents army, and can use those two factors to their advantage, GK pretty much crumble. Even nids can beat them by playing with shadow in the warp. I'm looking at nids for my next army even, just to show how it can be done.

    To the topic at hand, however, I would say take some of the lesser known units in the books, like their jump troop equivalent, or their devastator equivalent. Spread out your points more in 3+ rather than all in 2+/5++. I would say don't even use dreadnoughts, they're sort of against what grey knights philosophy is anyway. Take rhinos or stormravens as your transports, and eschew using cheap cheese like razorbacks. Or if you use any RBs at all, take one only. Heck, even use a land raider. Play it how you would play a vanilla marines army.


    Quote Originally Posted by althathir View Post

    I really don't have a problem with GKs for the most part, but the Inquisitor rules, made for an easy way for GK players to get around their weakness. I think they're the best book right now, but they aren't 3.5 chaos, craftworld supplement Eldar good either.
    I don't think anything comes close to the Daemon Princes in 3.5 chaos in terms of cheese. "Oh, you have an invulnerable save? Nope, I'm pretty sure you don't. Oh, you don't have a normal save either. And I can fly."

  17. #17

    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    Grey knights can be very powerful if done right and there are some who will not play against them. As for me i think that having grey knight armies across the table makes my victory all the sweeter
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  18. #18

    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    Having narrowly lost with Daemons against them recently (I left the guy with a single Strike Squad and a Raven), I would say that for all their ridiculousness, most of the conventional stuff that works against Marines works against them pretty well too - Bloodcrushers can make pretty nice Purifier jam. But yeah, you're rarely going to have a real challenge using them.

  19. #19

    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    If their codex was anything to go by, they should be specialized Marine hunters in the fluff - not Daemon hunters.

    Guard, Dark Eldar, and somewhat curiously, Khorne Daemons of all things, tend to do pretty well against them. Everyone else is fighting an uphill battle. If you're seeking a challenging play experience, they're not the army for you.

  20. #20
    Chapter Master carlisimo's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on Grey Knight?

    Are there any hypothetical GK builds that aren’t overpowered? How bad can you make an army?

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