Epic Charge Question - WotR

[Peregrin]

Does Epic Charge do anything other than add a +2 to Fight on a successful charge?
Some people seem to play that when an Epic action is declared it is immediately resolved. However, where Heroic Charge specifically says that the formation charges before other models, all Epic Charge says is that if it is declared before they charge, they get +2 Fight.

So essentially, if the Epic Charge is declared before the formation would normally charge, then it doesn't affect priority at all.

If, however, the charge is resolved immediately after the Epic Charge is declared, then it could be declared any time during the phase, potentially interupting normal charges.

If all it does is add a +2 fight, then it's just, at most, a couple of extra attacking dice. It's a very weak Epic Strike for the same cost in Might. It's completely redundant on figures like Eorl the Young. Regardless of your view of ES, Epic Charge could affect duels because it is always declared before the Fight phase, but it specifically says it increases the formation's fight value. Does that affect the hero as well, as long as he is part of the formation? Duels only mention not getting bonuses from wargear.

I'm particularly curious in regards to Theoden's usefulness, where he has Touched by Destiny.
Also, he shares his 5 Fight with his whole Formation (not just company) so should I assume they are cumulative? (Fight of 7 after Epic Charge). Otherwise it further weakens Epic charge, only increasing most of his normal formation's fight by 1 (Riders, Royals) and some not at all (Oathsworn).

[ForgottenLore]

Well, lets see here...

Does Epic Charge do anything other than add a +2 to Fight on a successful charge?

Does the description of its effects say it does anything else?

Some people seem to play that when an Epic action is declared it is immediately resolved.

That is wrong, though in this case it is irrelevant. The rules say that, except for when they can be declared, Epic actions are treated just like Heroic actions. So any Epic/Heroic actions at a given time get declared, then they are resolved one at a time in that order. It doesn't matter in the case of Epic Charge however since Epic Charge is declared before the formation charges not at the start of the phase there is nothing the opponent can declare at that time so there is no need to worry about it.


Heroic Charge and Epic charge are two completely different, separate things. They have nothing whatsoever to do with each other.

If all it does is add a +2 fight, then it's just, at most, a couple of extra attacking dice.

Epic Charge adds to the Fight value of the entire formation, not just the hero or his company. So, to take an extreme example, if you had 9 companies of Oathsworn militia all strung out and fighting 9 companies of goblins Epic Charge would be adding 18 extra dice instead of the 5 that Epic Strike would be adding (assuming Eorl the Young).

Regardless of your view of ES, Epic Charge could affect duels because it is always declared before the Fight phase, but it specifically says it increases the formation's fight value. Does that affect the hero as well, as long as he is part of the formation? Duels only mention not getting bonuses from wargear.

I would certainly thing that the bonus would effect any heroes in the formation and would apply in duels.

I'm particularly curious in regards to Theoden's usefulness, where he has Touched by Destiny.
Also, he shares his 5 Fight with his whole Formation (not just company) so should I assume they are cumulative? (Fight of 7 after Epic Charge). Otherwise it further weakens Epic charge, only increasing most of his normal formation's fight by 1 (Riders, Royals) and some not at all (Oathsworn).

It is a little redundant on Theoden since his special rule and EC overlap a bit by both effecting the entire formation, but you are right (IMO), EC ups Theoden's Fight to 7 which is then applied to the entire formation.

Hope that all makes sense and helps.

[Peregrin]

Ok.
This is pretty much how I read it as well... it is redundant on Eorl unless you are able to bring a good number of companies to bear, or unless your group doesn't allow ES in duels.

Guess I'll put Gandalf back in my Rohirim army. It's nice that Theoden can get that +2 for free, or in a pinch sacrifice himself without worrying about Might, but without continual Heroic Charges I find the horses are just too weak. Gandalf restoring Might every turn, in addition to Blinding light, is really valuable for these guys.

Hmmm.... Theoden and Gandalf, Epic Charge and Blinding Light... Each company (average of 5, besides supporting, in my experience) would get an extra 7 dice, plus Theoden would be able to Duel at Fight 7. There are definitely some possibilities.


Edit:
Wait... does Blinding Light affect heroes in duels?

[ForgottenLore]

Magic rules say heroes are effected by spells on their formation and it is cast in the move phase so there is no way a duel could happen before you cast it so I would think so.