Originally Posted by
Gen.Steiner
Removed Units:
Manticore, Colossus, Deathstrike, Mogul Kamir
These vehicles do not fit in a tactical, company-scale wargames enviroment like 40K: such war machines are either strategic (Deathstrike), situational to positional seige warfare (Colossus) or limited in application (Manticore). In the case of Mogul Kamir; he's simply awful as a character and as a concept.
I think the removal of the Medusa should stay. In the Second World War, sticking to your reference of the SU-152, which was, in essence, a self-propelled gun usable in an ad-hoc anti-tank role. The Medusa, I would damn well hope, is no mere SPG, but a potent siege weapon, albeit with direct fire as its primary method of engagement. The likelihood of such a gun being fast enough to reload to compete with infantry small arms in rate of fire is absurd (1 shot/turn). The likelihood of the vehicle's capacity for movement, and the gun's own traverse speed, being anywhere close to as quick as other weapons, is equally absurd.
However, with this in mind, I do believe Guard need a cheaper method of fielding a support gun. The mini-Russ with its S8 AP3 Small Blast is simply garbage, its not sufficient If a full-sized battle-cannon only suitable for mounting on a Leman Russ, slow and lumbering behemoth it is, I can see a similar scenario for the Tiger and the 88mm gun mounted on it. So logically, there must be someone somewhere who thinks "Why have all this damned armour restricting maneuverability, and increasing the production costs, when we can reduce the gun size, reduce the armour (and over-all efficiency by simply making it ontop of the Chimera chassis, to make maintenance easier with interchangeable core components), and change the vehicle's role to that of a support weapon, rather than a main-battle-tank." Your end result would be something comparable to the StuG, with a reasonable gun usable in AT and AP roles, with reasonable armour, but nothing matching that of a Tiger. In 40k, I would think this would be something like BS3 F13 S11 R10, with a R36" S6 AP4 Ordnance 1 Large Blast, and an AT shell with R48" S8 AP3 Ordnance 1 (no blast, solid shell for AT use). On the same note, I think a Leman Russ' Battle-Cannon should be able to fire both HE and AP shells, so as to not require a stupid role-shift for the tank in order to make it engage armour with any capability. To pay 155pts on a Vanquisher whos only function is to fire (with woefully insufficient BS3) S8 AP3 2D6 Armour-Pen.
New Equipment:
Light Multilaser: Developed from the heavier weapons systems deployed on Sentinels and Chimeras, the Light Multilaser (or LML) is a man-portable squad support weapon that some Regiments - particularly those hailing from Hive Worlds - have ready access to.
Weapon Range S AP Type
Light Multilaser 24” 6 - Assault 2
Is it S6 AP- to mirror its bigger cousin? If so, and you're going for same stats but Assault 2, then shouldn't it be AP6? Besides minor details, I think the concept is fabulous. For a force which is largely inferior to its opposition, and I would assume prone to supply issues, to have heavy weapons which can be charged (I assume) as easily as a lasgun, is prime for the logistics department.
Marksman's Rifle: The marksman's rifle, otherwise known as a long-las, is a Hellgun designed for precision long-range sniping, issued to a Regiment's best shots. It has a heavier barrel and a higher-charged powerpack with the drawback that a full powerpack can be used up in just one shot, at the highest setting.
Weapon Range S AP Type
Marksman’s Rifle 36” X 3 Heavy 1, Pinning, Always wounds on a 4+
Targeter: Issued to spotters in sniper teams, these items - from magnoculars to telescopes via thermal optic units - enable the spotter to pass on accurate targeting and shot fall information to their partner, the Marksman.
While the Spotter is alive, the Marksman's BS is improved by 1 from 4 to 5.
Love the idea. 40k seems to misrepresent snipers and their role big time. They're always, seemingly, units of several horridly ineffective marksmen whose sole purpose is to lay down simply a different form of fire on the enemy. (Sniper = Rending + Poison (4+) + Pinning) There's nearly no tactical application for snipers beyond that they function as specialized heavy weapons, they can't even pick targets out from units/ignore cover normally. Definitely sniper teams would add to the feel of the Guard, at least, to make them conform with a realistic modern day force, more or less. Not for the thematic feel of Guard, however.
Now, for those arguing this would be massively overpowered, I can't see the merit. If your only supporting statement is that only special characters have this rule, therefore this sniper team must be equal points cost, or at least increased points cost, I would have to say this is highly flawed. Before I go into it a little bit more, this is really just nit picking, but the Vindicare is not a special character. Game-wise he may be (Unique), but this is never the deciding factor for "Special Characters", lore-wise, he is merely a member of a collection of assassins with the same skills and armaments, of some Order or Brotherhood of sorts, I would assume. This means he is simply one of many, but still important enough to be difficult to acquire in numbers.
But as for points-cost for the ability to allocate wounds on shooting attacks, might I remind you the Vindicare hits on 2s, re-rolling on 4s, and if attempting to pick out a specific model, will wound on a 2+ with the specific type of ammunition used, ignoring all armour saves. Furthermore, if required to, the Vindicare may shoot the heaviest vehicle armour values in the game full of holes with its 4D6 Armour Penetration + additional D3 from Rending per 6 rolled, as well as +1 to Vehicle damage chart with AP1. Top that off with its ability to remove a model's Invulnerable save for the rest of the game, provided it hits and wounds said model (not hard with hitting on 2s then 4s, and wounding on 2+). Now, for that absurdly good package, you pay 145pts. What do you pay for our humble human sniper team? 50pts. Two Guardsmen, with BS4 and a piece of gear giving the Marksman BS5 for the duration of his spotter's life (yes, duration, I very much expect opponents to light up a two-man sniper team for a free kill-point, or simply because its easy to get rid of them, and saves them the trouble of losing an apothecary or other such specialist squad-member). So, said team fires and hits on 3s normally, 2s with the team at full strength, wounding on 4s. Sure it can allocate its hits, but its AP3, the only thing it can 'reliably' kill is MEQs, and it can only do in 1 per turn. Can our humble Marksman engage armoured targets? Sure it can, can it effectively engage TEQs? Nope. Can it engage vehicles with high AV? Nope. Can it even engage low AV vehicles? Not really, S3 shot + D6 AP, if you're really lucky, you get the 6, roll a D3 for additional AP. Max you can do is glance AV12 and Pen AV10 or 11, assuming you roll a 6 and then a 5 or 6 for the additional D3. Can our sniper team engage characters? Why, sure. Can it ignore and remove their Invul permanently? Nope. Last, but not least, the Vindicare has two wounds on T4 with a 4+ Invul, and Stealth easily affording a 3+ Cover. Sniper team? No Invul, 5+ paper-save, on 2 T3 models with 1 wound each, the only redeeming quality is Camo-cloaks giving a 3+ Cover, which is just as easily ignored for both the Vindicare and the Sniper team if targeted by Barrage or flame templates. If you really want to stack the killing potential up, 3 Sniper teams equate to 1 Vindicare, can 3 Sniper teams kill a Vindicare? I would think so. However, the Vindicare can perform specialized tasks which the Sniper teams, if tasked to do, would **** bricks.
To say one special rule allowing the firer to allocate wounds makes the weapon overpowered is just a hollow argument.
Ultimately, I would say though the unit feels really "cool," its abilities really are not amazing, nor is it something I would always take instead of another 10-man squad of Guardsmen.
Explosive Collars: If a Penal Legion Scum unit becomes Pinned, or is Falling Back, a model with an Explosive Collar may be removed so long as the Commissariat Provost is still alive. This immediately Unpins the unit or Rallies the unit (even if it is under half strength).
Sounds suitably Guard-like. I like it!
Riot Shield: The armoured shields issued to the Adeptus Arbites are not only useful in civil order situations – their ceramite and plasteel construction is a potent defence in combat too. Any model carrying a Riot Shield gains a 4+ invulnerable save in close combat only.
Interesting, I'm not quite sure as to the lore behind such shields, but I would assume large ceramite and plasteel shields would protect one against shooting attacks, no? Unless the shield itself was not all encompassing in terms of user coverage, in that case I would be inclined to say stick with the close-combat only. However, as with many things I find myself irked with, I don't think the riot shield should confer an Invul. Now, this is purely from a realism perspective, but I've never agreed on giving Invuls to anything that does not inherently avoid damage simply as it is. This would be something like a force-field, or other such strong fabricated protection that you don't have to effectively "wield" to have it protect you. To have a simple riot shield, distributed for use in suppressing civil disorder, I would say a 2+ Invul, re-rolling, sounds fine (against rioters and the likes) but in actual combat, I'm not so sure it would even afford you a 4+ Invul, as that is on par with an Iron Halo... think about that for a second...
Anyhow, good concept though, just needs different rules, I think. Maybe makes the enemy always hit them on 5s? (Maybe thats too good, 4s seems better) as the shield gets in the way of all manner of strikes. As for shooting, +1 to Armour save? Just tossing ideas out in order to fix this seemingly broken piece of gear (imo).
Sacred Icon: Beastmen units, ashamed of their hideous visages, often carry beautifully wrought (or crudely fashioned) images of the God-Emperor and various of His Saints to both inspire them to greater acts of self-sacrifice, and to demonstrate their loyalty. Any Beastman unit with a Sacred Icon adds 1 to their combat resolution score.
Human Bomb: Many sinners' crimes against the Lex Imperialis and the Lex Militum are so severe that only death may redeem them. These Penal Legionnaires are fitted with explosive vests and backpacks, and directed into bunkers or enemy concentrations to serve the God-Emperor with their deaths.
A Human Bomb may detach from his Squad at the beginning of any one of the Imperial Guard player's Movement Phases. He MUST then move towards the CLOSEST enemy unit. During the Shooting Phase, he may Run if this will get him closer to the enemy. At the end of the Shooting Phase, his explosive vest will detonate with the following effect: S10 AP2 Ordnance Blast. The template MUST be centred on the Human Bomb.
I most definitely approve. Throwing demolition charges has always been so inefficient, and taking them in Veteran squads and SWSs never provides enough bulk in order to make sure the bomb reaches its target.New
Orders:
These orders may be used by Rough Rider Senior Officers, and affect other Rough Rider Squads.
Ride, For The Emperor! In the heat of combat, what can seem like an impossibly vast distance can, with luck and skill, be crossed in the blink of an eye, bringing the Rough Riders into combat with a foe who felt themselves safe.
If the order is successfully issued, the ordered Rough Rider Squad immediately makes a Fleet move, rolling 2d6 and selecting the highest.
Action Front: Tank! Rough Rider units fear enemy armoured vehicles above all else; their lack of heavy weaponry can often cause serious problems for Rough Rider formations in the open. However, they are often amply supplied with lighter anti-tank weaponry, and a canny officer will direct the fire of these weapons efficiently and effectively.
If the order is successfully issued, choose one enemy vehicle (or squadron of vehicles) visible to the officer. The ordered Rough Rider Squad immediately shoots at the nominated target, counting their weapons as twin-linked.
Get Back In The Fight! As per Codex: Imperial Guard
Good idea on the Rough Riders PCS. I think an all cavalry army would be quite interesting. Not enough space to keep the entry though... 20,000 character cap :/
Elites:
0-3 Marksman Teams
Marksman Team: 50pts each
Each Marksman Team consists of a Marksman with Marksman's Rifle and a Spotter with Lasgun and Targeter.
Up to three Marksman Teams may be chosen as one Elites choice, but each deploys seperately and they are all seperate units.
Need more input I think, but I'm inclined to reduce points cost.
Troop Type WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Marksman 3 4/5 3 3 1 3 1 8 5+
Spotter 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 7 5+
Composition:
1 Marksman
1 Spotter
Unit Type:
Infantry
Wargear:
Camo Cloaks
Lasgun (Marksman has Marksman's Rifle)
Laspistol
Defensive Grenades
Flak Armour
The Spotter has a Targeter
Special Rules:
Sniper! The Marksman is a crack shot, able to pick out targets in the swirling mass of smoke and fire that is the battlefield of the 41st Millenium. As such, a Marksman may choose his target and allocate hits to enemy models of his choice, subject to all rules surrounding LOS and target acquisition.
Range 500 The Spotter is constantly providing updated targeting information to the Marksman, enabling him to precisely place shots that would otherwise be nearly impossible. While the Spotter is alive, the Marksman Ignores Cover.
NEW OPTIONS:
Storm Trooper Squad:
The Storm Trooper Sergeant may also exchange his hot-shot laspistol and/or hot-shot lasgun for:
- Stormbolter: 10pts
Up to two Storm Troopers able to take Special Weapons may also take:
- Stormbolter: 10pts
- Light Multilaser: 12pts
Any or all Storm Troopers may exchange their hot-shot lasguns for:
Bolter: 2pts
Shotgun: free
I think Stormbolters shouldn't be 10pts. If you're getting this points cost off of the vehicle pintle-mounted Stormbolters, I think you should think of tactical application and difference conferred by the two bolt shots per turn instead of the Hot-Shot Lasgun (which, if I'm not mistaken, you've already made S4). Imo Stormbolters should be 4 or 5 points (Warrior Acolytes, as per GK Codex, get them for 3pts, I would assume a BS4 model goes up a point or two). Light Multilaser for 12pts seems... iffy at best. For 3pts more I end up with a Plasma gun, which, sure, lacks Assault 2 and Range 36". However, its a Plasma gun, and everyone knows how much kill BS4 Plasma guns pack once they're in Rapid-Fire range. 10pts sounds a little better, maybe even 5-10pts, depending on how you view it. As, again, you're sacrificing potential MEQ killing-power for something that is not an MEQ killer, but packs high Strength. (If anything, lasguns prove, unless you get a crap load of wounds on MEQs, armour-saves beat everything) Oh and Bolters, as stated previously, should be free. If anything, I might just make it reduce the pts cost of each trooper by 4. (Just going by other pts values given for weapon options, and though I hate to use it as a reference, as I think its universally accepted as a beacon of imbalance, Codex: GK has Hot-Shot Lasguns for 5pts, on BS3 Acolytes. Take away the 5+pt gun and give it a 1pt bolter? Hardly a fair trade, considering the Hot-Shot is now S4 as well.)
Though a word of caution, anyone questioning balance will inevitably view it from a different lens than the next. Never take what is given to you and accept it as fact, I think for table-top wargaming, the best balance is achieved through play-testing, something GK didn't seem to go through.
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) I'm not sure anyone would like it....
Colonel Jacka
