Dual kits, stretching the concept too far?

[Mr. Smuckles]

Eh the dual kits are fine. Just because every once in a while there is a crappy one does not mean the entire process of making dual kits is flawed.

[lbecks]

To be fair, that's a catch-22 for GW if they do make dual kits.

Terrorgheist/zombie dragon - urgh, they're too similar! Too many shared pieces.
Vargheist/Crypt Horrors - urgh, too many wasted pieces! Why not just make two full kits?

Tell you what bugs me more to be honest. Too many dual names! VC have just gotten silly. I'm just going to call everything a Varcryptgheist and be done with it.

I prefer the "wasted" pieces to too similar.

[Sureshot05]

I think Darnok has said everything that I feel on the matter. There are some dual kits that both builds look excellent and I'd think about picking up two (VC new Cavalry, Tyrant&Flyrant) but some others just look two similar and thus one spoils the other (Mawlock & Trygron, Plaguepult&Warp Cannon, Coven throne&... etc) thus i'm only likely to buy one if i like the model.

[theJ]

Y'know... this whole dual kit thingy would work a lot better on infantry, where you are actually justified having the models look about the same, but with different weapons and maybe a helmet or shoulderpad.

Think of ye' good ol' imperial infantry. One kit could make standard guardsmen, conscripts, special weapon squads and veterans all in one, and if they could fit all the various options (plasma/melta ) in there, I don't think anyone would complain.
Marines could easily have a single 10-man kit with all the options needed to make tactical, devastator or sternguard squads, including several sets of sculpted shoulderpads and ornate helmets for the sternguard.
The Empire already has a mixed kit for their state troopers and I have yet to hear anyone complain about it (in terms of options - aesthetic direction is a question for another time).
Tanks, as mentioned, work well combined (some exceptions may apply), as, just like in real life, they are usually based around the same "frame" anyway. Swap the guns around and give it a dozer blade and suddenly your predator is a Vindicator. No problem as far as I can see.

Monsters, though? Monsters are individuals by nature. I have great respect for the sculptors who can actually make a dual-kit monster work, but, as Darnok mentioned, even if both options end up looking good, they still look weird if fielded in the same battle.

What I'd rather see is kits built to give variety to a single type of monster rather than give two limited ones. If they could make something with the sheer weight of options as the good ol' Giant (possibly the best monster kit ever, tbh) and combine it with the posability of the Dreadknight... we'd be in business. Not only could I make a monster that actually looked unique (more or less), but I could even field (and therefore buy) several of them without it looking stupid on the field.

I can dream, can't I?

[AlexHolker]

Y'know... this whole dual kit thingy would work a lot better on infantry, where you are actually justified having the models look about the same, but with different weapons and maybe a helmet or shoulderpad.

Think of ye' good ol' imperial infantry. One kit could make standard guardsmen, conscripts, special weapon squads and veterans all in one, and if they could fit all the various options (plasma/melta ) in there, I don't think anyone would complain.
Marines easily have a single 10-man kit with all the options needed to make tactical, devastator or sternguard squads, including several sets of sculpted shoulderpads and ornate helmets for the sternguard.

The problem with this is primarily that it gives GW an excuse to jack up the price - if this happened, I can guarantee that your Tactical squads would start costing as much as Devastators (20 pounds for five).

[vcassano]

Dual kits aren't perfect - in many cases they are a compromise. However, as already addressed in the thread, if it weren't for duel kits we probably wouldn't see models for many of these items, or they'd be in metal/finecast. So we get more options for models and the accompanying rules with the minor downside of SOME of the kits being a bit of a compromise. In an ideal world such a compromise wouldn't be necessary, but GW has financial concerns it has to address in order to keep producing the quality goods that they provide, so if this is the compromise that is to be made, I don't mind.

[loveless]

Y'know... this whole dual kit thingy would work a lot better on infantry, where you are actually justified having the models look about the same, but with different weapons and maybe a helmet or shoulderpad.

The main issue here is that you end up not using half of the dang kit when they do it to infantry. Grey Knight (in Power Armor) kits have a plethora of bits, from weapon options to backpack options that devour valuable sprue space. I honestly don't think it would be that difficult to put 10 Grey Knights in a box if you lost the Falchions (crazy option to add in the first place) and made the Interceptor packs smarter (maybe an addition to the backpack instead of a whole new one).

Don't get me wrong, I like options...but I hate having to buy them every dang time. Look at the Immortals/Deathmarks. Great kit, the end models look good, but there are 15 guns in every box for 5 models! I have no idea what I'm going to do with the giant stack of Deathmark weapons I'll end up with...is there even a market for these second-hand when every Necron player will have 3,000 of them in the bitz box?

I guess I'd rather see more kits that change based on how they fit together instead of "look at all of the extra components we included!". The Necron barges aren't bad - you either end up with a spare Lord or a Tesla turret that could make for fun defensive installation terrain.

Now, I'm not sure how much leftover plastic you'll get out of the new Tyranid boxes - looks like a hefty bit, really. I'd like to see the sprues after someone's taken off the necessary bits for the Tervigon or Tyrannofex, and likewise for the Tyrant and Flyrant.

At least the Warrior Boneswords/Lash Whips are separate - can you imagine how much GW would charge if they were all integrated into the Warrior box? Yeesh.

[lbecks]

The main issue here is that you end up not using half of the dang kit when they do it to infantry. Grey Knight (in Power Armor) kits have a plethora of bits, from weapon options to backpack options that devour valuable sprue space. I honestly don't think it would be that difficult to put 10 Grey Knights in a box if you lost the Falchions (crazy option to add in the first place) and made the Interceptor packs smarter (maybe an addition to the backpack instead of a whole new one).

Don't get me wrong, I like options...but I hate having to buy them every dang time. Look at the Immortals/Deathmarks. Great kit, the end models look good, but there are 15 guns in every box for 5 models! I have no idea what I'm going to do with the giant stack of Deathmark weapons I'll end up with...is there even a market for these second-hand when every Necron player will have 3,000 of them in the bitz box?

I guess I'd rather see more kits that change based on how they fit together instead of "look at all of the extra components we included!". The Necron barges aren't bad - you either end up with a spare Lord or a Tesla turret that could make for fun defensive installation terrain.

Now, I'm not sure how much leftover plastic you'll get out of the new Tyranid boxes - looks like a hefty bit, really. I'd like to see the sprues after someone's taken off the necessary bits for the Tervigon or Tyrannofex, and likewise for the Tyrant and Flyrant.

At least the Warrior Boneswords/Lash Whips are separate - can you imagine how much GW would charge if they were all integrated into the Warrior box? Yeesh.

If they gave you a single option grey knights kit they would probably charge . . . 33 US dollars. Just like the single option assault marines kit. Though I did get annoyed when they charged an extra few dollars in the vargheist/crypt horror dual kit. All the other single monstrous infantry was less. That may be a bad sign of things to come.

[loveless]

If they gave you a single option grey knights kit they would probably charge . . . 33 US dollars. Just like the single option assault marines kit.

That assault marine kit used to be a lot less...I didn't even realize it was a $33 kit now...last time I looked at buying one, it was $25. Yeesh. That said, I still say it's ridiculous. Why can they give me 10 Grey Hunters/Blood Claws/Wolf Guard in PA for $37.25, but they can only give me 5 Grey Knights for $33? The alternate backpacks must factor into it somewhere (as in GW's "yeah, but you get..." mentality rather than any sane costing).

Mind, the Space Wolf box is just 2 of the same sprue busted in half. I suppose I wouldn't be surprised if they halved the box and upped the price to $25 (or $33 ) the next time they get updated. I mean, they did it to LotR...

Though I did get annoyed when they charged an extra few dollars in the vargheist/crypt horror dual kit. All the other single monstrous infantry was less. That may be a bad sign of things to come.

You're paying for wings, there...I guess? Struck me as odd, too.

[lbecks]

Aren't grey knights worth more points-wise? I don't know, i don't play 40k. The Space Wolves, Regular Tactical, and Chaos Space Marines are all at the 37.25 price point. The space wolves come with tons of parts, the Chaos come with decent extras, and the Regular Tactical are bare bones. I believe Jes Goodwin said that GW only cares about how many legs (and bodies) you get and whatever else the designer can fit on the frame is fine.

[Sgt John Keel]

If they gave you a single option grey knights kit they would probably charge . . . 33 US dollars. Just like the single option assault marines kit. Though I did get annoyed when they charged an extra few dollars in the vargheist/crypt horror dual kit. All the other single monstrous infantry was less. That may be a bad sign of things to come.

I'm not sure if it's fair to characterize the Assault Marine kit as single option kit, you do get a spare five torsi and backpacks/jump packs.

(Although the kit is spectacularly boring, with all the copy-paste going on in it.)

[Nogginthenog]

I'm not sure if it's fair to characterize the Assault Marine kit as single option kit, you do get a spare five torsi and backpacks/jump packs.

(Although the kit is spectacularly boring, with all the copy-paste going on in it.)

The BA Death Company box is a much better assault squad kit, same price too (at least here in the UK)

More weapon options, more interesting sculpts, only downside is sanding off all the blood drops if you are doing anything but a BA/BA successor army.

[Sgt John Keel]

The BA Death Company box is a much better assault squad kit, same price too (at least here in the UK)

More weapon options, more interesting sculpts, only downside is sanding off all the blood drops if you are doing anything but a BA/BA successor army.

And also no torsi with the jump pack straps, for the slightly more fastidious of us.