Yikes, no one tell him about Siren Song then. Same cost as the Rune of Challenge except you can have multiples and it works on ItP units...
Yikes, no one tell him about Siren Song then. Same cost as the Rune of Challenge except you can have multiples and it works on ItP units...
... and then I won.
and to be fair above, you're absolutely right, i misread the thread title, didn't realize you were talking about little changes.
i don't see the point in little tweaks when we're still about 6 books shy of a full line-up anyway. why make FAQs when the next army books will break all the rules, anyway?
Phew...thats luckyOriginally Posted by Da_White_Orc
For 70 points i can get an almost identical effect from a master engineer for any one warmachine within 3". You would have to come up with a whole new ability for him then
It only taken on cannons (There are better combos on grudge throwers) and two cannons is usually the max, with 3 being the most they can physically take.
You are also of course ignoring every rune except the engineering runes in that statement....
1) Its a master rune so cant be Dublicated (and usually means you have to take a seperate character to take it)
2) its one use only
3) It doesnt work on ITP units
4) the target has to be able to charge
What exactly is wrong with it? it can pull one enemy unit into a bad position? and try unsing it against Daemons, Undead, Forest spirits etc
You do realise that every army has at least one 'automatic effect' ability/item right?
Some people think the Book of Hoeth is cheesy, I think the duplicate misfire and bounce rerolls are cheesy...
i'm sure there's some orc and goblin rule that I feel is completely valid that you think is overpowered.
honestly i think running a gun line on the back table edge is straight disrespectful to the other person who took time out of their schedule to come down to the store and give you a game. and then to add insult to injury you don't even let them declare their own charges.
but i don't want to get into a big thing here
Launching fanatics from the back of a goblin unit so they go through the parent unit. By placing the goblin unit behind another unit (e.g. orcs) in front, you can with a bit of careful placement ensure that a unit charging the orcs will automatically take 6D6 hits no matter the roll on the dice. Now, the gobbos and the orcs will both take 3D6 hits each to make this work but it's a small price to pay to obliterate a killer enemy unit. It's a rude trick and I'd like to see some kind of FAQ as to whether you are allowed to launch fanatics in such a way that they go through the parent unit.
... and then I won.
i'd slap myself if i pulled that move
no argument here
My fix for the Hellheart would be to keep it the exact same except for stating that the auto-miscast only happens if and when the affected Wizard(s) choose to cast a spell. It still lets the Ogre player ruin an entire magic phase, and with the starting distance between two deployed armies (and an optional dispel scroll) it still gives you ample, multi-turn protection from something like Purple Sun.
Although to be honest I don't see why you need an item to protect you from such a highly-specific threat... not every opponent can/will use the Lore of Death, and of those who do some will fail to roll Purple Sun. Plus, what's the point of giving an army an Achilles Heel if you also let them buy a cheap pair of iron shoes?
You might as well take them out of the game at that point, since there's literally no purpose for a Ld 5 unit with that statline.
I taught that move to a new player once
Sometimes a post is so rotten I have to respond like dr.Cox-- My Dwarven painting log -- My Lizardmen painting log -- My Scurrying Skaven painting log -- My nurgle beastmen painting log --My Tau cadre painting log -- My knights of the white wolf -- My Ork painting log
---> Newest: 23-5-2013; Finished Riptide, broadsides and pathfinders ---> New: 13-5-2013; Lizardmen, tournament pictures, Won best painted army!
So it's your fault, is it? I'll blame you next time I see it...I taught that move to a new player once
... and then I won.
I didn't let him launch fanatics from the back of the unit, but I did have him place the fanatic holding unit behind another unit of goblins which was about to be charged by a bretonnian lance. Fanatics pop out, bump through the unit in front and then either go through the bretonnians, or fall short and then get stepped on by the bretonnians for 2D6. So I guess it's slightly less meaner than launching the fanatics from the back of the unit as that'd increase the odds of the fanatics falling short, which is what you want for double fanatic hits.
Sometimes a post is so rotten I have to respond like dr.Cox-- My Dwarven painting log -- My Lizardmen painting log -- My Scurrying Skaven painting log -- My nurgle beastmen painting log --My Tau cadre painting log -- My knights of the white wolf -- My Ork painting log
---> Newest: 23-5-2013; Finished Riptide, broadsides and pathfinders ---> New: 13-5-2013; Lizardmen, tournament pictures, Won best painted army!
1) The ability to get off 2+ IF spells a turn with few dice, something that usually happens 26% of the time on 6 dice.
2) The ability to Reroll misfire result on either artilery dice on a cannon.
How is there even a comparison?
Nope. There are a few things in each book i think are probably a bit too good for their cost, maybe a couple in total that are really good for their cost. There are a few things in total i think are strait Broken, none of them in the O&G book. Those items i think are broken are generally impossible to deal with using a balanced list.
How does Rune of Forging make something too good? what it is is giving the dwarf players the ability to:
1) Make their cannons better than empire ones
2) ensure that a key componant of their army, usually the main weapon against monsters, doesnt suddenly blow up.
At what point is that making them too good? (especially when the cannon starts going up in price significantly?
What do gunlines have to do with it?
Also, ONE unit is forced into an unfavourable charge on ONE turn. You then also need to have a unit to kill the unit you just forced into a charge.
Neither do i. However, i want to know your reasons for feeling this way and will inevitably do my best to convince you otherwise.
Individual runes do not equal magic items. An equitable thing would be no duplicate rune items (a rule that already exists).
Removing duplicate runes would be tantamount to removing the following common items:
Giant blade
Sword of bloodshed
Ogre blade
Sword of strife
Sword of anti heroes (?)
Armour of destiny
Trickster's helm
Armour of fortune
Helm of discord
Spell shield
Gambler's armour
Dragonhelm
Obsidian lodestone
Talisman of endurance
Obsidian amulet
Lichebone pennant
Book of ashur(?)
Terrifying mask of eee!
Last edited by Harwammer; 15-03-2012 at 11:12.
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Perfect! I think it'd be totally worth it so that we can make Daemons/Dwarves a bit more bland and maybe turn some players who love those armies away from the hobby all together! Somebody should write a request -email to GW right now!
Personally - and I know it won't be popular with the stunties - I'd just give them access to the common items and just give them a list of pre-made runic items in their book, with perhaps a few unit specific runic upgrades. Once upon a time, the Dwarfs had magic items just like everyone else, items like the Fiery Ring of Thori or the Golden Septre of Nogrim and indeed, had access to the common magic items. After all, most of the magic items in the Old World were made by Dwarfs it seems. Your Sword of Swift Slaying is probably pretty similar to an Axe with the Master Rune of Swiftness.
With all this wonderful customisability, I see the same runic combinations. What's the point then? Just give them 8-10 pre-made runic magic items like everyone else, plus a sprinkling of runic upgrades (e.g. for war machines, unit banners, etc.) within the army list itself. It brings Dwarfs in line with the other 8th ed book, it becomes a manageable list to playtest and for everyone else to get a handle on. Best of all, the Dwarfs will really hate it, it'll give them something to complain about or reminisce about the good old days for years. Possibly for ever (judging by the Squats)! Nobody is as happy as a Dwarf with a grudge. Everybody wins!
... and then I won.
Well OnG , Tomb Kings Ogres and VC have all gone through it, and it was particularly rough on the first two, no particular reason Dwarves and Demons need to be exempt. GW seem to be learning so far , hopefully they'll get extra flavour as well.Perfect! I think it'd be totally worth it so that we can make Daemons/Dwarves a bit more bland and maybe turn some players who love those armies away from the hobby all together! Somebody should write a request -email to GW right now!
War does not determine who is right, it determines who is left.
I think daemons and dwarfs are fairly balanced in their current magic item selection, because where other 7th/6th edition books now have 3-4 pages of magic items AND acces to the 5 pages from the BRB, daemons and dwarfs only have the 4 pages from their own books, but no common items. In their cases it wouldn't really be a "rough transition" as much as moving from their own items to the BRB items.
Sometimes a post is so rotten I have to respond like dr.Cox-- My Dwarven painting log -- My Lizardmen painting log -- My Scurrying Skaven painting log -- My nurgle beastmen painting log --My Tau cadre painting log -- My knights of the white wolf -- My Ork painting log
---> Newest: 23-5-2013; Finished Riptide, broadsides and pathfinders ---> New: 13-5-2013; Lizardmen, tournament pictures, Won best painted army!
@ Lord Inquisitor:The 'problem' of the same runic combos popping up all over the place can be remedied to a large extent with better internal balance. Those runes for making WMs more reliable are simply good, while there are other runes which mechanics appear in later books at like half the cost. It's a dated book. That doesn't impede the value of having a unique background driven selection of 'upgrades'. I think you are overlooking the 'soft' value of players being emotionally invested in their armies. At least I know if I was a Dwarf-player I would be quite turned off by what you're suggesting, and hence I wouldn't wish it on them either. The player is being given a 'choice', that in itself has value, even if your suggestion wouldn't rob Dwarves of any 'advantages' or 'strengths' they'd still be be robbed of the pleasure of sitting there tinkering back and forth with all these little runic comboes.
@Maoriboy007:
Vampire counts still have Vampiric Powers. Ogres still have Big Names. If you are suggesting that the Runic System and Daemonic Gifts will be more or less 'revamped' as far as Details go, then sure - of course it will. We might get more choices, we might get less choices, the internal balance may be better or worse. That's all depending on the Designer's whims and passion for the Army, I'd say.
Straight removal? There's no precedence what-so-ever for that. Sure it might happen, but as someone I trust in these matters so eloquently put it in another thread: GW would have lost the plot.
@The Bearded One:
Exactly right. If anything, both the Runes and the Gifts should be expanded in number/variety. Not that I am having high hopes of that happening. Just that it's what should happen.
If runes and gifts are removed, how long until virtues, spites, and the like are taken out? do people really want the game to become-
Random player- "i'm using pointy eared empire",
Player two- "Im using short bearded empire"
The game will have lost its apeal to me at that point.
The "slippery slope" argument is a classic fallacy.
Make-your-own-magic-items is not the definition of dwarvishness to me. Seems to me you can achieve the same effect as most of the runic items with generic items. There's no real fluff requirement nor mechanical need for them. Besides, clearly powers like big names and vampire powers are here to stay.
... and then I won.
'Goes through dwarf weapon rune list'....most of those effects CANT be got through common items, let alone the combinations possible using them
They why wouldnt runes be?
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