Basic shield question

[Corvus Corone]

Hi there. I'm a fantasy newcomer and I just want to make sure I'm playing this right.

If I have a model (typically a hero) with either:
-A great weapon AND shield
-Additional hand weapon (to make two hand weapons) AND shield

Do they get the +1 armor save? I ask in the first case since the GW needs two hands and in the second just to be sure.

Finally, in the second case, would the model get a parry save? I think not, but again I want to be sure.

This arose when I was equipping my vampires. Thanks.

[T10]

The model will be benefiting from a +1 armour save. However, when in close combat the Requires Both Hands special rules of the great weapon and the additional hand weapon will deny him the armour save bonus.

He will not be able to gain the 6+ ward save for parrying because he is cannot use the shield in close combat. Also, great weapons and additional hand weapons are "special weapons" so the model must use them in preference to a single hand weapon, and only if using a single (non-magical) hand weapon and a (non-magical) shield will he get the parry save.

In short:

Great weapon + shield: 6+ armour save, but if in close combat then no armour save and no parry save.
Additional hand weapon + shield: 6+ armour save, but if in close combat then no armour save and no parry save.

-T10

[Sarge.au]

You always have to use the "special weapon", so no parry or +1AS in combat. You will, however, get the +1AS against shooting and magic attacks.

[Banville]

Hey there,

I don't have the book to hand but I'm certain that the answer to your first question is that you get the bonus to your armour only against shooting. In hand to hand it is assumed the shield is slung on the guy's back so he can use the two handed weapon. By extension if you are using a second hand weapon I don't think claiming the parry save is allowed.

[Smogg]

Against ranged attack you can use your shield, letting you have +1 on your armor save, but not a 6+ parry save since that is only against hand to hand attacks from the front.

Once in close combat, you must choose to use either your hand weapon & shield OR your great weapon or two hand weapons. Unless you fight with hand weapon and shield you get nether the +1 armor save bonus from shield nor its 6+ parry save.

Often it can be worthwhile to bring the shield if you expect a lot incoming arrows against your model, even if you don't plan on using it in close combat.

[BlackPawl]

You get the save only against shooting, in close combat you have to use the weapons you have and both require two hands, so you could not get the save nor the parry.

[Smogg]

oh yeah T10 is right, you can't choose to use your hand weapon in close combat if you brought a special weapon, so not parry save there.

[Corvus Corone]

Thanks for the prompt response, all.

Can someone point to the rules where this is explained? All I can find is that a model with a shield gets +1 AS, nothing about needing a hand to use it in combat or anything like that in terms of rules. I get what you're saying, but I just want to be able to point to the rules that underly it!

Thanks again

[T10]

See the introductory text in the weapons rules.
See the Requires Both Hands special rule.

-T10

[Corvus Corone]

See the introductory text in the weapons rules.
See the Requires Both Hands special rule.

-T10

Thanks maestro; appreciated (how did I miss that.........).

[Corvus Corone]

Ok right really sorry all, maybe Im being really obtuse, but the extra hand weapon rules dont have the 'requires two hands' attribute. So as far as I can see you do get A shield bonus to armor save in combat when using an additional hand weapon, as the only attribute for it is extra attack - unlike the great weapon, it does not 'require both hands'.

Is this right?

[hamsterwheel]

From the BRB FAQ:

Page 91 – Two/Additional Hand Weapons
Add “Requires Two Hands.” to the special rules on the profile.

[Corvus Corone]

From the BRB FAQ:

Page 91 – Two/Additional Hand Weapons
Add “Requires Two Hands.” to the special rules on the profile.

Aha! Right. Thanks for bearing with me on this one chaps.