'my will be done' vs nurgle

[Pavisel]

last week at the lgs, two of the guys got into a big argument about conflicting rules. tomb kings against chaos. a unit of skellies with tomb king, who by virtue of 'my will be done' conveys his WS6 to his unit. battling unmarked chaos warriors led by hero. the chaos hero had the gift/ability/magic item? that put everyone in base contact with him at -1WS. the argument was over which one takes precedence - does the -1WS apply to the skellies WS2, making them WS1, then the king makes them WS6 or does the king make them WS6 then the chaos hero adds his -1 to make them WS5? bear in mind, the king and chaos hero were not in base contact.

[Poncho160]

If the Tomb King was not in base to base, his weapon skill would be 6, which would pass to the skellies. The Skellies in btb would them be made WS 5 by the -1.

Dont see there is much to argue about really! haha

[Iraf]

Those in base contact with Nurgle marked models are NOT -1 WS. Models which attack Nurgle marked models are -1 WS, and only when they attack, they are normal WS when attacked back.

[Warrior of Chaos]

Those in base contact with Nurgle marked models are NOT -1 WS. Models which attack Nurgle marked models are -1 WS, and only when they attack, they are normal WS when attacked back.

Iraf is correct here.

[Paladin21]

Probably needs an FAQ, to be honest, judging by the old answer for the VC Helm. Their item did basically the same thing (in end-function, if not exactly the same restrictions) and was FAQ'd to overrule any other modifier. They always got the WS of the controlling vampire, regardless of any modifiers which would affect the troops. I'm not sure if they want to keep that precedent, but they should at least clarify.

[Warrior of Chaos]

No FAQ needed. It is very clear in the WoC Armybook what mark of Nurgle does. In a nutshell if you make an attack that uses WS or BS against a Nurgle marked model you take a -1 penalty to that skill (WS/BS). You DO NOT take a penalty when attacked by a Nurgle marked model. For the OP, my will be done would only matter if you were attacking his marked hero. The undivided models with no mark don't even come into the equation. If you attack his Nurgle marked hero you are at -1WS (for the model making the attack - so in this case you would be at WS5 with the King or the skellies). Finally Marks are not magic items or gifts. Just a unit upgrade you pay for to "buff" your unit/character.

[Bloodedsoul]

The way I understood it is they always used the kings unmodified WS no matter what, ignoring penelties and bonuses. Really hope I haven't been playing that wrong.

[Iraf]

My Will transfers unmodified WS, but once transferred nothing stops it from being modified. They have WS 6, and WS 5 when attacking Nurgle.

[Lord Inquisitor]

It'd be nice if the core rules addressed this sort of thing in a definitive sort of way.

Personally, the way I see it is that you make any substitutions before you perform any modifiers. The most obvious example is Ld - I'm going to work out what Ld my unit uses and then I'm going to apply the modifiers. This has been supported by the Daemon FAQ on the Ld bomb. Your goblins are within range of the orc general (Ld 9) but under the effect of Doom and Darkness (-3 Ld). What's their Ld? It's 6, right?

I think the same logic applies to tomb kings (or fencer's blades, or whatever), you substitute the characteristic for the best available, then you apply any relevant modifiers.

Bloodedsoul: it does indeed say they use the king's unmodified WS, but I'm not sure that they can't have it modified after that. I assume the "unmodified" is to prevent you sticking fencer's blades on the King and then getting WS10 tomb guard. They get the kings unmodified WS as their modifiable WS. That'd be my interpretation but I can see this could possibly be argued the other way though.

[Bloodedsoul]

Thanks, seems fair enough way to play it anyway, I just never thought of it like that is all, makes sense though.

[thesoundofmusica]

I agree with LI. First establish WS, then add modifiers.

[warhammero]

Unmodifyed ws. Nothing can modify. Thats the same case with the sword that gives ws 10 to the king the weapon skill of the skelies is 6 because unmodify ws.
The tomb kings become 5 but and because the rule "unmodify Ws" the skellies always has WS6 no matter wath even if we cast the spell speed of light in this unit the king has WS 10 but the skellies only the unmodify WS OF THE KING WS 6

I hope that this two examples clarify the unmodify WS rule.

[Iraf]

No, he gives His unmodified, it's not unmodified once they have it.

[warhammero]

Unmodified means unmodified. Not + or - of any source aply

[Iraf]

Giving you his unmodified means just that, you get his unmodified. No one can modify what he gives you. After you have it though, you own it. And nowhere does it say that their WS is unmodified.

[Iraf]

Like LI said earlier though, I can see your argument also. I'd "Most Important Rule" it until FAQd

[warplock]

Unmodified means unmodified. Not + or - of any source aply

The king has ws6, he has to pass that on to the skeletons, thats his WS and no one can take that away from him (when he passes it to his skeletons).
So now they have ws6.
Nothing stops THEIR WS (WS6, they got it from their king!) from being modified now. -1? Now they're WS5 honestly.

[Warrior of Chaos]

Unmodified means unmodified. Not + or - of any source aply

All stating "unmodified" does in the example of transfer of WS from the King to the Skellies is specify that his "base" WS is transferred. It protects against abuse such as putting Fencer's Blades on the King and transferring WS10 to all the Skellies. There is no reason or rule that would prevent modification of that base WS once the Skellies have it. If that was the case you might have entire effects, spells, items and the like which are negated simply by a literal reading of the term "unmodified" and blanket application of the term to a concept.

[Grimgormx]

In this one Im with Iraf completely.

Also as has been said, unmodified is the base ws of the king so the skellies will be ws 6 even if the king attacks the character with the nurgle rule and his WS gets -1 (WS5) the skellis will keep their WS 6 unless they also attack the character with the nurgle rule.

[Glen_Savet]

Does it become a timing issue? They're given ws 6, have it reduced by mark of nurge, or have it reduced, then are given ws 6?