By the way, there's a bit in A Thousand Sons where Ahriman sees a strong glimpse of future, and one part of it are "Ravens of Blood". Not to mention Ahriman's fellowship is The Corvidae and their symbol a black raven's head.
There's been a lot of mentions in HH series about the two missing legions. Maybe they'll get themselves written, one day
In one of the HH short story compilations there is a Thousand Sons VS World Eaters piece set in the aftermath of Prospero Burns. Basically a Thousand Son makes his way beneath one of the great libraries and makes off with a psychic staff of some kind with a Raven clutching a drop of blood as the head of the staff.Originally Posted by Kenzaburo
We know that one of the missing legions was wiped out by the Space Wolves. Can't remember which short story it's from though.There's been a lot of mentions in HH series about the two missing legions. Maybe they'll get themselves written, one day
Didn't say it was well executed just that the intent was for people to be able to do it. I think people get quite abit of comfort out of having set rules/fluff from the existing chapters, and see the lack of rules and fluff as drawbacks.
They're mentioned abit, just not by name. Pretty sure its implied that the ultramarines absorbed quite a bit of one of the missing legions.
I highly doubt it, the missing legions are interesting because we know nothing about them. Combine that with all the existing fractions that people want more stories about and I don't see them being expanded any time soon.By the way, there's a bit in A Thousand Sons where Ahriman sees a strong glimpse of future, and one part of it are "Ravens of Blood". Not to mention Ahriman's fellowship is The Corvidae and their symbol a black raven's head.
There's been a lot of mentions in HH series about the two missing legions. Maybe they'll get themselves written, one day
That's an in-universe rumor; It's not true. Or at least it's not according to the author - Aaron Dembski-Bowden.
The only issue I have with this is that under the older fluff, the Imperium's general populace didn't know about Chaos Marines, the Horus Heresy or Chaos. The =][= hunted down and would annihilate whole civilizations to wipe out a Cult, Space Marines were mind wiped after fighting daemons and whole populations/IG forces were either put to death or rendered infertile and stuck in labor camps and worked to death if they had knowledge of The Great Enemy. This was one of the big points over the First War for Armageddon. The =][= did this to Imperial citizens and Logan Grimnar almost started a small war over that fact.
In modern fluff, though, it seems things aren't nearly quite so...serious.
...............................This is a link to the Forum Rules.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,A Tale of Guilders plog
I think thats something that started in BL books from the early 2000s onwards(the first word bearers novel for example, has basic pdf troopers having full knowledge of the traitor legions) and has leaked sideways into the design studio. Its a bit of a disconnect from the old fluff for me, but it seems to have kept to the BL section for the most part. I think the toning down of the punishments for encountering chaos more to do with the universe becoming a bit more black and white. Can't have the good guys doing things bad guys do. That makes them morally questionable .
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Killing troops exposed to chaos wasn't punishment, it was insurance. The Imperium believes allowing such people to live causes an unacceptable risk of daemonic insurrection.
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As much as I hate to disagree with some good old 'it was better in my day' logic, I don't really see it. The Imperium is still constantly morally questionable, this has been reinforced time and time again. The 'exterminate everything' policy was, to be fair, a bit silly and utterly impractical. The idea that the Imperium was continually exterminating planets, guard regiments, even marine chapters due to chaos contact is an utterly unsustainable position; all GW have done in toning this down is make Imperial policy a little less simplistic which, IMHO, makes them less, not more, black and white.
Agreed with the above. The Imperium is huge, but obliterating any and all forces that came into contact with Chaos is unsustainable.
As for black and white... I really think that you would be hard pressed to justify calling any faction in 40k cut and dry 'good' or 'evil' with an unbiased, objective viewpoint.
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a blog of Wood Elves and Warhammer
What could you possibly call "good" about Chaos?
I never said all factions were 'good', rather that they are not fitted to cookie-cutter moulds of black and white perceptions. Chaos is perpetually scheming to further itself at the cost of all others, but of which faction can you honestly say this is not true?
By the standard upheld in the grim darkness of the far future, Chaos is no more evil than the Imperium--seeking it's own survival and the destruction of all others, no matter the cost to the galaxy at large.
elves in the snow
a blog of Wood Elves and Warhammer
Freedom from the totalitarian, tyrannical Imperium of Man? The power to make your own destiny, rather than be shackled to your birth-world in an existance of pure tedium? The power to strike back at the universe, rather than meekly accept your fate?
Thank goodness for that
Proud fluffbunny - Playing 40k for 17 years (not in one sitting)
If that's what it says that is pretty much explicit isn't it lolI guess that's down to interpretation, I took as as much confirmation as was needed.
The fact that he has red power armour with a raven's head on the shoulder pad searching for lost arcane items and swears to form a brotherhood of fellow TS marines and that their watch words would be "knowledge is power" was as good as saying "we will now be called the Blood Ravens".
But ok, it doesn't explicitly say that, but I didn't feel it needed to.
Proud fluffbunny - Playing 40k for 17 years (not in one sitting)
As others have said, it's not about chaos as 'good', but just a different shade of grey. I acknowledge that unfortunately quite a few writers paint chaos as a one dimensional spiky cliche, but if we're talking about changes over time I'd say modern writers in showing sympathetic falling to chaos in the HH and in Black Crusade have done more than ever before to bring depth to the stereotype.
Indeed most of the pre-Imperial 'chaotic' societies we've seen in the HH (Sarosh [from DofA], Colchis, and possibly Cadia spring to mind) seem much more stable and less oppressive than the Imperium does. I would suggest that a case could be made that it is Imperial dogma that makes chaos as nasty as it appears, not chaos itself. All of the worst chaotic societies we see are, after all post-Imperial. The organically grown chaos societies generally seem much more moderate.
The rebel governors who are used to a society of brutalism and subjugation within the Imperium may well start skinning people alive as soon as they are given the freedom of chaos. But is this due to chaos itself, or is it analogous to keeping someone imprisoned and subjected to brutal violence their entire lives and then when they reciprocate violent acts upon gaining freedom, claiming 'you see, we should never give people freedom' as the answer?
It's probally because Slaanesh quite likes the idea of skinning people alive and thinks that you should give it a try to see how it feels.
Although Khorne would be outraged at the waste of killing time and Tzeetch would say "what skin?". So they aren't all bad.
I was under the understanding that Blood ravens were from the Word Bearers from Dawn of War: Dark Crusade or at least they knew the origins of the Blood ravens.
Thousand sons sounds about right though.
EDIT:
Also you have to remember all they have heard or seen is imperial propaganda and stories of great brutal psychopaths so when they go rogue i would speculate that with the new freedom their psyche attributes the brutalism and appalling acts of torture and grotesque things as being "Chaos" so they may carry it out in what they believe is "Worshiping the chaos gods".
Organic Chaos societies may have festivals like the old celtic festival(for got its name) where men and woman were free from marriage and have intercourse with any one they wished and if the woman fell pregnant it would be the married couple's child. That would be considered worshiping Slaanesh. Just as Ritual combat between warriors for positions of 'head of the hunt' or something similar. Nurgle could be asking for deliverance from sickness of family members so they sacrifice animals and array them in "Beautiful" shrines.
Last edited by @Nyxium; 08-04-2012 at 21:18.
Not necessarily. Their records only go back that far (it's been said that almost all their records from before then have been destroyed). The chapter itself seems to be aware that its founding was earlier.
I seem to remember a reference to them operating as far back as M32, perhaps in a discussion of one of the DoW books? (I've only read extracts, so I can't comment on the books themselves.)
Like the Blood Ravens being founded from the TS, I thought Aaron said that the Ultras assimilating the lost Legions is just, as far as we can tell, a rumour, but didn't actually give a definitive answer either way. As for both them and the Blood Ravens-TS link, a lot of people seem to think his own doubts about the truth of these two claims are Word of God, which he has denied.
Last edited by The Warmaster; 10-04-2012 at 06:06.
Rap music may be bad, but many metalheads have a tendency to be judgmental and elitist. I should know - I am one.
No, he was specific, he stated that if he knew people would take it as truth rather than malicious rumour, he wouldn't have included the lines. The Ultramarines never absorbed any Lost Legionnaires. Their large numbers were solely due to their recruitment practices, nothing more.
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