Starting some Tomb Kings

[RugbySkin]

Howdy y'all. I am starting a Tomb Kings army and was wondering how you think this idear of mine would go. I'm thinking a very chariot/fast construct type list with a big unit of 9 (or 2 units of 6) chariots as the main core part. perhaps some support with archers. Thinking a Tomb King/Prince with the unit/s of chariots, if not Settra, a Warsphinx, a Necrosphynx, some burrowed scorpions to take out war machines that would be a major impediment for them, some Necropolis Knights and maybe a blob of tomb guard for the heck of it. Some more support with Screaming Skulls and a Lost Ark and I think I have a nifty and fun army.

Questions, Concerns, Catcalls, Cries for Mercy?

[Spiney Norman]

Sounds great, here are a few things to think on from my own experience running Tomb Kings

1. Tomb Guard absolutely need a King/Prince with them to be worth their points, they cannot function properly on WS3, if you're putting your Royal characters in chariots forget about Tomb Guard

2. Scorpions are poor, really poor, if you want a good entombed unit for hunting war machines take a small unit of Necropolis Knights or even Sepulchral stalkers. Carrion flocks can also work well in this role, but of course they fly rather than entombing.

3. Warsphinxes are great, Necrosphinxes less so, the warsphinx is arguably the best buy for its points anywhere in the army list, at least I think it is. By all means use both, but I would definitely add the Warsphinx first.

4. Settra is great any time, but if you have a couple of Colossi follow him around he's downright dirty, WS7 with unstoppable assault should not be allowed to exist.

Oh, and welcome to Khemri, just ignore the people that pop up to tell you that TK suck, they don't.

[RugbySkin]

1. Well, i was thinking of putting a prince in with the TG and hiding my Lich Priest in with them. If I do 2 Squads, it would NOT be with Settra (I ain't made of points ) and I could do one king with the one squad and a prince with the other, and prolly have points leftover for a cheapy lvl 3 or 4 caster.
2. The WS4, S5 T5 just looks better to me for a throw away unit. Also, real world cost is a factor on that one too. Also, a good distraction for a big daddy model with a breath weapon to melt the crew.
3. I always see people raving the other way until I look at a battle report and Big Daddy Pointy Arms goes down faster than an Italian Scrum in a 6 Nations match... I kinda want the model more than fielding him makes it look required but I know he can do some nasty things to a 2 hydra DE build...
4. The Collossi and the Heirotitan. Are they meant for the Monster base (Vargulf, Vargheist and Crypt Horror sized one) or something bigger? I'd LOVE to have a go at doing a custom one but I wanna make sure it's appropriately sized. And can he join one of those bad boys?

[oldWitheredCorpse]

2. Scorpions are poor, really poor, if you want a good entombed unit for hunting war machines take a small unit of Necropolis Knights or even Sepulchral stalkers. Carrion flocks can also work well in this role, but of course they fly rather than entombing.

Scorpions aren't necessarily poor, they're just bad at taking out artillery. What they're good at now is tying up combat-poor units such as slaves or gobbos. Now that they have stomp, they have an easier time scoring two wounds against slaves (they need 3 against gobbos, though). A scorpion can also add a rear charge at the right moment and swing a turn 3/4 battle by 3-5 (+1 charge +2 rear +kills). Scorpions aren't the threat they once were, but they can be annoying little buggers (or problem solvers) nevertheless.

[grhino]

Scorpions aren't the threat they once were, but they can be annoying little buggers (or problem solvers) nevertheless.

Not to mention they can still take out a 5-strong heavy cav. unit with a single flank charge!

[Spiney Norman]

Not to mention they can still take out a 5-strong heavy cav. unit with a single flank charge!

Ummm, and so can most units if your opponent is brain-dead enough to expose the flank of his FC to your pleasure, good luck flanking a fast cavlary unit with a scorpion against a good player though.

[Althwen]

When people say Tomb kings suck, they mean it has a steep learning curve.
It'll sometimes give you a headache, but the rewards for sticking with it are that much greater. I play WoC, WE, some HE and TK's, and TK is by far the most difficult and most fun to play with atm. Good luck!

[oldWitheredCorpse]

Ummm, and so can most units if your opponent is brain-dead enough to expose the flank of his FC to your pleasure, good luck flanking a fast cavlary unit with a scorpion against a good player though.

That would depend on the situation on the board. The scorpion relatively small and can pop up anywhere on the table, and you will have exactly 1 round to react. ICFB was more brutal, but less flexible. Ebts works like dropping pieces in Shougi.

And I do believe we're discussing regular cavalry, not fast cavalry.

[grhino]

Also: I said heavy cav. Four S5 attacks with decent WS 4 and killing blow + poison give a decent chance of killing one (maybe two knights). Usually small heavy cav support units are not very good at responding at such sudden threats (unlike light cav. indeed)

[Spinocus]

TK definitely doesn't suck but the army seems to have less room for error and blunder than other 8th ed armies. Internal balance is a bit lacking as TK usually needs to stick to certain lists in order to stay competitive.

Looks like you're on the right track with your unit selections. Don't overlook the effectiveness of re-directors! Small, cheap units of Horse Archers, Horsemen or Carrion can be invaluable for keeping your flanks clear and allowing your Chariots and other heavy hitters to fulfill your plan unmolested.

If forced to make a choice between a Scorpion or two and additional Necro Knights or fatter TG blocks then avoid the former and go for the latter. Scorpions still have their place in the TK line-up but they struggle to compete for points against Warsphinxes, Necro Knights, TG and Stalkers. Stalkers are generally preferred over Scorpions because they can actually do something on the same turn they surface! However if you've got the points to spare in a larger point game then sure, toss a Scorp or two into your list.

Scorpions are yet another sore spot with TK players and the new 8th ed book because they lost quite a bit of mojo when GW took away their ability to charge in the same turn that they surfaced, removed one Wound from their profile AND jacked up their point cost! Acceptance of the pros & cons of EBTS is one thing but the loss of one Wound and the slight price increase seriously tarnished the appeal of Scorps. Would have been a nice touch if Scorps were the only TK unit that could charge after surfacing but the new book is full of similar units (Ushabti) that could have used just a wee bit of tweaking to improve the internal balance and bring the army's overall power level to the same level as other 8th ed books.

Personally I think Scorpions were nerfed just enough so that gamers' attentions were swayed towards the lovely new Special choices that, shock & surprise, come packaged in gorgeous new plastic kits that cost muy $$$ (i.e. Stalkers/Necro Knights, Warsphinx).

The Necro Colossus & Hierotitan should go on 50x50mm bases, no smaller, no bigger. Do NOT jeopardize your monsters' health by putting them on larger bases! The last thing you want is your monsters needlessly suffering wounds because a template barely scraped their lovely but oversized custom base (as if cannons needed any more help)!

[oldWitheredCorpse]

Scorpions are yet another sore spot with TK players and the new 8th ed book because they lost quite a bit of mojo when GW took away their ability to charge in the same turn that they surfaced, removed one Wound from their profile AND jacked up their point cost!

The cost of scorpions was left unchanged, but the wound loss hurts. And the threat of a T1 charge is gone for scorpions, swarms and carrion, which severely limits that pressure a TK army can put on the opponent on first turn. Theoretically, the two types of horsemen could do something, but they're too lightweight to achieve much. That reduces the T1 threat to archers, catapults and ... the light of death. We're still the masters of backfield infiltration, but now it's been relegated to T3 and on.

[Badbones777]

I have not played as much 8th ed as I'd have liked so all but one of the games I have played have been Skaven so far. As such the previous posters
are probably a lot more on the ball than me in terms of in-game advice. I will say however that I strongly advise you to give them a go. TK got me back into
Fantasy in 6th ed after a Fantasy hiatus midway through 4th ed period (I had no major problem with the game, just everyone else was too into 40k to
play with me). Anyway after a break from all the GW games for a good few years I saw the 6th ed TK book and got back into it, and was really enjoying fantasy again.

I can hand on heart say they are probably the most rewarding army in all-round terms I've ever played in Fantasy, and I say that as a dyed in the wool eternal Skaven lover!

[Spinocus]

The cost of scorpions was left unchanged, but the wound loss hurts. And the threat of a T1 charge is gone for scorpions, swarms and carrion, which severely limits that pressure a TK army can put on the opponent on first turn. Theoretically, the two types of horsemen could do something, but they're too lightweight to achieve much. That reduces the T1 threat to archers, catapults and ... the light of death. We're still the masters of backfield infiltration, but now it's been relegated to T3 and on.

I stand corrected! I was confusing the Scorps' cost with that of Gorgers, another backfield unit from OK (my other army) that did get a bump in points for their 8th ed book.

[oldWitheredCorpse]

I stand corrected! I was confusing the Scorps' cost with that of Gorgers, another backfield unit from OK (my other army) that did get a bump in points for their 8th ed book.

No worries, the two are quite similar in many aspects.