Present your army at the beginning of the game

[karse88]

i was playing warhammer with a friend the other day. we started a smaller discussion about presentation of your army - are there any rules but houserules?... we couldn't find any :S ... he implied that you dont present anything before you put the unit on the table - this way your opponent has NO idea whats coming and must therefore plan setup more strategic... i found that highly unlikely, i have always setup my army after presenting ALL but magic and hidden etc...

im looking for someone who can tell me page in rulebook, the rule - if there is any... or simply state that its a house rule.

thanks

[T10]

It's mostly by convention. Most players consider magical items to be secret until revealed: This may be a hold-over from the 4th/5th edition battle magic cards.

-T10

[Lyynark]

The fact that there are items that reveal hidden units (assassins/fanatics/etc.) and magic items sets quite a strong precedent that such things are revealed only when activated.

[BlackPawl]

We play it also that we put the units one after another on the table and after deployment we declare what is what, where are the characters and which one is the general.
Upgrades like shields / spears / DHW etc. will be declared, but no magic items or hidden assassins / magic items.

[Brother Haephestus]

Like BlackPawl, we also declare after setup by starting at one end and list units, characters, etc. I will make sure my opponent knows who the champions, banners, etc are in the units, how they're armed, etc. All magic items however are not revealed until after use. There are items that counter or eliminate MI use, and items that reveal such things, so I feel no need to tip my ENTIRE hand. "Fluff logic" says that the enemies have probably scouted each other before the fight so stupid stuff like who has spears or handweapons, etc., are fine by me to reveal. However, if I had an opponent that refused to tell me anything at all, I would be fine with that. I don't recall anything that says I have to reveal anything at all, with this being a WYSIWYG-style game anyways. However, if my opponent attempted to proxy without a reveal, I would hold him to the WYSIWYG standard.

[SanDiegoSurrealist]

We play it also that we put the units one after another on the table and after deployment we declare what is what, where are the characters and which one is the general.
Upgrades like shields / spears / DHW etc. will be declared, but no magic items or hidden assassins / magic items.

We do the same at my local , but I have heard of other shops that have open list rules (you can ask to see opponets list at anytime).

[orc_maddness]

Hmm, Me and my family play it that we provide each other with out army lists and we allow each other to build around each others army. At the end of the day, if your opponent does not give you any information on his army at all, how would you know he is not cheating, and what would stop them from stating that one character is a general from another when you destroy one?

[Arctaeus]

Every Warhammer game i've played I show my army list to my opponent before the game starts, and he/she shows me their army list

We're all very friendly here

[belgarath97]

It's mostly by convention. Most players consider magical items to be secret until revealed: This may be a hold-over from the 4th/5th edition battle magic cards.

-T10

Like he said it's mostly convention, case in point my local area doesn't declare anything until each unit hits the table. IE. I grab a unit of Clanrats, put them on the table, and say "35 Clanrats, Full Command." or some such.

I don't think it says anywhere in the book that you have to do it in any specific manner.

[GotrekFan]

We disclose unit composition such as armament and troop type (savage orc, black orc, etc) and hero type (lord/ hero/ Mage and magic level if Mage) as they ate deployed, but magic items or purchased special abilities like bloodline powers are kept private.
However, while we generally don't ask all information is freely given.

While there is no rule that I can think of, it strongly implied that players use closed lists so that the effects of the skull staff, vauls unmaking, etc are of use. Open list are more of a tournament thing anyway.


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[Grimgormx]

There are no rules that say if you have or you dont have to present your army, its just a good manner, you should never say what objects, magic banners or even what level are your wizzards because your strategic may be based in that, so dont reveal until used, also you shouldnt say who is the general until he kicks into action. bul also if you want, you can tell to your friend all what you have in your list.

You should say what something is, if you are using a model that doesnt represents 100% the unit, as an example I have 60 metal BO, with choppas and big chopas, when you were abble to give them shields I just decided that I wont spent more money in that unit, so if I use them I always told to my friends if they are or arent carrying shields.

[vorthrax]

My gaming group plays "open-list" (present list to opponent before deployment) because all of the local tournaments and Texas GTs are open-list and most of our games are practice for the tournament scene.

EDIT: Things that are supposed to be hidden by rule (like assassins) are kept secret.

[yabbadabba]

No rules regarding this, no centrally defined etiquette. Do what you think is socially right with your friends.

[AMWOOD co]

There are a few things which will be revealed before or during deployment.

• A character's wizard level will be revealed when you determine spells. This is before deployment.
• Certain special rules, eg. Chosen of the Gods; Been There, Done That; etc.

A general understanding of what the models carry should also be explained as some people use proxies or the models are not 100% accurate (eg. Chaos Warriors may have shields, but not everyone models them with halberds and shields) or are ambiguous ("Are those ensorcelled weapons or lances?")

My group finds it easiest to reveal everything that isn't paid for with magic item allotments. So magic banners, virtues, big names and magic items of all kinds are covered as 'magic item allotment' and are thus hidden. However, other powers, such as Vampire Powers, Slaan upgrades, Chaos gifts, etc. we concluded left distinct enough visual clues as to be revealed at deployment. Now, we agreed with this back in 5th, when a lot of these things weren't around, but we have maintained the idea. It's too nitpicky to say 'Oh, that upgrade can be hidden but that one can't.' or 'They might mistake that for something benign.' Our usual justification, wings, usually determines whether you can or can't hide it. Slaan get the downside just to be consistent.

[Warrior of Chaos]

There are a few things which will be revealed before or during deployment.

• A character's wizard level will be revealed when you determine spells. This is before deployment.
• Certain special rules, eg. Chosen of the Gods; Been There, Done That; etc.

A general understanding of what the models carry should also be explained as some people use proxies or the models are not 100% accurate (eg. Chaos Warriors may have shields, but not everyone models them with halberds and shields) or are ambiguous ("Are those ensorcelled weapons or lances?")

My group finds it easiest to reveal everything that isn't paid for with magic item allotments. So magic banners, virtues, big names and magic items of all kinds are covered as 'magic item allotment' and are thus hidden. However, other powers, such as Vampire Powers, Slaan upgrades, Chaos gifts, etc. we concluded left distinct enough visual clues as to be revealed at deployment. Now, we agreed with this back in 5th, when a lot of these things weren't around, but we have maintained the idea. It's too nitpicky to say 'Oh, that upgrade can be hidden but that one can't.' or 'They might mistake that for something benign.' Our usual justification, wings, usually determines whether you can or can't hide it. Slaan get the downside just to be consistent.

I think this best sums it up how we go about doing it in our game group.

[karse88]

hmm funny all besides my one friend do it different here .. im working at his store, teaching smaller kids the basic rules of warhammer, while learning them myself :b .. all my friends go to the store to play, challenge or help others and we always present the army as "this is what you can expect to battle" then the opponent knows "when i put my HPA in this corner, he still has room on the other side for flamers as a counter" etc .. if you get what im saying? :b ... your way (and the store owners way) sound more fun though.. then you need to think a bit more before deploying ..

[Brother Haephestus]

Besides - ask yourself. Do you REALLY want me to reveal EVERYTHING at the setup?

(Visions of me in a scanty thong, lightly oiled, sends shudders of terror down my OWN spine. Sheesh - more rolls than a German bakery here ....)

[Warrior of Chaos]

Visions of me in a scanty thong, lightly oiled...

I think I threw up a little bit in the back of my throat at this one Brother...

PROMISE ME that you'll never get that in depth on a deployment call-out for one of our games!

[samael]

Besides - ask yourself. Do you REALLY want me to reveal EVERYTHING at the setup?

(Visions of me in a scanty thong, lightly oiled, sends shudders of terror down my OWN spine. Sheesh - more rolls than a German bakery here ....)

This brings back memories of a game I've played with a mate during the hight of summer on my blisteringly hot attic. We both ended up playing in nothing more than our shorts . The airconditioning got installed soon after.

On topic, in our group we always tell eachother what units we have but not any magic items or hidden models that they might have, it's all part of the suspense.

[Grimgormx]

This brings back memories of a game I've played with a mate during the hight of summer on my blisteringly hot attic. We both ended up playing in nothing more than our shorts . The airconditioning got installed soon after.

On topic, in our group we always tell eachother what units we have but not any magic items or hidden models that they might have, it's all part of the suspense.

Oh My God, we dont need Striphammer!!!!!