Present your army at the beginning of the game

[karse88]

i was playing warhammer with a friend the other day. we started a smaller discussion about presentation of your army - are there any rules but houserules?... we couldn't find any :S ... he implied that you dont present anything before you put the unit on the table - this way your opponent has NO idea whats coming and must therefore plan setup more strategic... i found that highly unlikely, i have always setup my army after presenting ALL but magic and hidden etc...

im looking for someone who can tell me page in rulebook, the rule - if there is any... or simply state that its a house rule.

thanks

[T10]

It's mostly by convention. Most players consider magical items to be secret until revealed: This may be a hold-over from the 4th/5th edition battle magic cards.

-T10

[Lyynark]

The fact that there are items that reveal hidden units (assassins/fanatics/etc.) and magic items sets quite a strong precedent that such things are revealed only when activated.

[BlackPawl]

We play it also that we put the units one after another on the table and after deployment we declare what is what, where are the characters and which one is the general.
Upgrades like shields / spears / DHW etc. will be declared, but no magic items or hidden assassins / magic items.

[GotrekFan]

We disclose unit composition such as armament and troop type (savage orc, black orc, etc) and hero type (lord/ hero/ Mage and magic level if Mage) as they ate deployed, but magic items or purchased special abilities like bloodline powers are kept private.
However, while we generally don't ask all information is freely given.

While there is no rule that I can think of, it strongly implied that players use closed lists so that the effects of the skull staff, vauls unmaking, etc are of use. Open list are more of a tournament thing anyway.


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[Grimgormx]

There are no rules that say if you have or you dont have to present your army, its just a good manner, you should never say what objects, magic banners or even what level are your wizzards because your strategic may be based in that, so dont reveal until used, also you shouldnt say who is the general until he kicks into action. bul also if you want, you can tell to your friend all what you have in your list.

You should say what something is, if you are using a model that doesnt represents 100% the unit, as an example I have 60 metal BO, with choppas and big chopas, when you were abble to give them shields I just decided that I wont spent more money in that unit, so if I use them I always told to my friends if they are or arent carrying shields.

[Brother Haephestus]

Like BlackPawl, we also declare after setup by starting at one end and list units, characters, etc. I will make sure my opponent knows who the champions, banners, etc are in the units, how they're armed, etc. All magic items however are not revealed until after use. There are items that counter or eliminate MI use, and items that reveal such things, so I feel no need to tip my ENTIRE hand. "Fluff logic" says that the enemies have probably scouted each other before the fight so stupid stuff like who has spears or handweapons, etc., are fine by me to reveal. However, if I had an opponent that refused to tell me anything at all, I would be fine with that. I don't recall anything that says I have to reveal anything at all, with this being a WYSIWYG-style game anyways. However, if my opponent attempted to proxy without a reveal, I would hold him to the WYSIWYG standard.

[vorthrax]

My gaming group plays "open-list" (present list to opponent before deployment) because all of the local tournaments and Texas GTs are open-list and most of our games are practice for the tournament scene.

EDIT: Things that are supposed to be hidden by rule (like assassins) are kept secret.

[yabbadabba]

No rules regarding this, no centrally defined etiquette. Do what you think is socially right with your friends.

[belgarath97]

It's mostly by convention. Most players consider magical items to be secret until revealed: This may be a hold-over from the 4th/5th edition battle magic cards.

-T10

Like he said it's mostly convention, case in point my local area doesn't declare anything until each unit hits the table. IE. I grab a unit of Clanrats, put them on the table, and say "35 Clanrats, Full Command." or some such.

I don't think it says anywhere in the book that you have to do it in any specific manner.

[AMWOOD co]

There are a few things which will be revealed before or during deployment.

• A character's wizard level will be revealed when you determine spells. This is before deployment.
• Certain special rules, eg. Chosen of the Gods; Been There, Done That; etc.

A general understanding of what the models carry should also be explained as some people use proxies or the models are not 100% accurate (eg. Chaos Warriors may have shields, but not everyone models them with halberds and shields) or are ambiguous ("Are those ensorcelled weapons or lances?")

My group finds it easiest to reveal everything that isn't paid for with magic item allotments. So magic banners, virtues, big names and magic items of all kinds are covered as 'magic item allotment' and are thus hidden. However, other powers, such as Vampire Powers, Slaan upgrades, Chaos gifts, etc. we concluded left distinct enough visual clues as to be revealed at deployment. Now, we agreed with this back in 5th, when a lot of these things weren't around, but we have maintained the idea. It's too nitpicky to say 'Oh, that upgrade can be hidden but that one can't.' or 'They might mistake that for something benign.' Our usual justification, wings, usually determines whether you can or can't hide it. Slaan get the downside just to be consistent.

[karse88]

hmm funny all besides my one friend do it different here .. im working at his store, teaching smaller kids the basic rules of warhammer, while learning them myself :b .. all my friends go to the store to play, challenge or help others and we always present the army as "this is what you can expect to battle" then the opponent knows "when i put my HPA in this corner, he still has room on the other side for flamers as a counter" etc .. if you get what im saying? :b ... your way (and the store owners way) sound more fun though.. then you need to think a bit more before deploying ..

[Warrior of Chaos]

There are a few things which will be revealed before or during deployment.

• A character's wizard level will be revealed when you determine spells. This is before deployment.
• Certain special rules, eg. Chosen of the Gods; Been There, Done That; etc.

A general understanding of what the models carry should also be explained as some people use proxies or the models are not 100% accurate (eg. Chaos Warriors may have shields, but not everyone models them with halberds and shields) or are ambiguous ("Are those ensorcelled weapons or lances?")

My group finds it easiest to reveal everything that isn't paid for with magic item allotments. So magic banners, virtues, big names and magic items of all kinds are covered as 'magic item allotment' and are thus hidden. However, other powers, such as Vampire Powers, Slaan upgrades, Chaos gifts, etc. we concluded left distinct enough visual clues as to be revealed at deployment. Now, we agreed with this back in 5th, when a lot of these things weren't around, but we have maintained the idea. It's too nitpicky to say 'Oh, that upgrade can be hidden but that one can't.' or 'They might mistake that for something benign.' Our usual justification, wings, usually determines whether you can or can't hide it. Slaan get the downside just to be consistent.

I think this best sums it up how we go about doing it in our game group.

[Brother Haephestus]

Besides - ask yourself. Do you REALLY want me to reveal EVERYTHING at the setup?

(Visions of me in a scanty thong, lightly oiled, sends shudders of terror down my OWN spine. Sheesh - more rolls than a German bakery here ....)

[Wildchild200]

In every 'official' game i have played army lists are not revealed at all. The models you put down are meant to be WYSIWYG so obviously they are revealed at deployment but anything else is hidden. Also the latest army book (Vampires) kemmler has an item that forces the opponent to reveal secrets. So it is still a mechanic that is in use.

[Banville]

There's no rule in fantasy about wysiwyg and as such I feel it's entirely appropriate and polite that when deploying you give your opponent the heads up about shields and halberds, where your General and BSB are and stuff like that. However, iformation like whether the BSB has a magic banner, whether my lord has a magic weapon etc. I feel shouldn't be voluntarily revealed. However, if an opponent has the wherewithal to ask if my characters are equipped with anything special then I thihnk it's only polite to tell them.

[Rhellion]

There's no rule in fantasy about wysiwyg and as such I feel it's entirely appropriate and polite that when deploying you give your opponent the heads up about shields and halberds, where your General and BSB are and stuff like that.

Incorrect, kind of. There is a rule in Fantasy as stated on p88 that the majority of the unit must be armed correctly. Most events have additional rules as well stating that characters must be armed correctly on their models (if he has magic armor, his model must have the mundane equivalent armor on him).

[Artiee]

Our Players place the unit. If they think that there will be question on the unit, they will say what the unit is and how its equiped. At the end of the deployment, we point out our BSB, our General and any casters.

All other items are kept secret.

[BEEGfrog]

I go out of my way to point out anything that isn't wysiwyg. But anything consistent with the model as tabled isn't mentioned until used.

If there is something where I know there may be a controvery I tend to raise the issue before the battle. This has two benefits, the discussion can take place without the battle being dependent on the decision going one way and you can mislead an opponent as to your strategy if you bring up an issue you don't intend to use.

[SanDiegoSurrealist]

We play it also that we put the units one after another on the table and after deployment we declare what is what, where are the characters and which one is the general.
Upgrades like shields / spears / DHW etc. will be declared, but no magic items or hidden assassins / magic items.

We do the same at my local , but I have heard of other shops that have open list rules (you can ask to see opponets list at anytime).