What are the proper rules for brace of pistols?

[kramplarv]

As the name says.. What is "true".

1: When you have a brace of pistols and shoot 2 shots in a shooting phase. Can you use the Pistol and S4 in close combat?

2: What is the real reloading schedule for a brace of pistols which are being shot, using the pistolier skill?


turns: 1: 2: 3: 4:
XX - - XX
XX - XX -
XX XX XX XX

[Tulkas]

Basically, if you have a Brace of Pistols it means you can shoot one pistol each turn. So you shoot pistol A and the next turn, you reload pistol A while you shoot pistol B. Next turn, you shoot A, reload B.

As for Pistolier, (quoting rulebook)
Pistolier.
The warrior is an expert at using all kinds of pistols. If he is equipped with a brace of pistols of
any type (including crossbow pistols), he may fire twice in the Shooting phase (though note that normal
reloading rules apply). If he has a single pistol then he may fire it in the same turn it was reloaded.

So that makes it shoot pistol A and reload it in the same turn. If that goes for one pistol, it goes for both. Shoot both pistols each turn is what I'm reading.

Hope that helps.

[kramplarv]

Aha, thanks.

I have been, I still am, in the camp that says you only cn reload one pistol at a time, because nowhere does it state that you can reload two pistols at the same time. Only that you can fire two pistols. well well, I think it is one of those things a gaming group will have to discuss before gaming.

[thesoundofmusica]

The way Im reading pistoleer is that he has the option of firing twice in one shooting phase if that would be benefitial (like a particularly good position and target). Normal reloading applies, meaning at least one round of reloading and no shooting if you do this. Nowhere does it say you can fire twice AND reload both pistols the same turn to fire twice again the very next turn.

It is somewhat unclear imo.

[thesoundofmusica]

Oh and about CC. We want the game to go smooth and fast, not get bogged down by keeping track of every single pistol. So we play that in the very first round of any new CC you get to fire each pistol once regardless of wether they were shot in the shooting phase, as directly from the rulebook.

[Whitesilk]

Firstly; I play in a mix group of people that are RAW (Rules As Written) and RAI (Rules As Intended) mentality. So, we play modified House Rules. To answer your question as RAW:

1)"When you have a brace of pistols and shoot 2 shots in a shooting phase. Can you use the Pistol and S4 in close combat?"

You have to have the skill Pistolier to be able to fire twice in your Shooting Phase.
If your Missile Warrior has fired their pistols in your turn and then they get charged by your opponent, you have not had time to reload. So, no you can't use the pistol in HtH combat and since you can't use the special Hand-To-Hand rule that was stated in the FAQ; they basically revert to clubs with the club concussion bonus.

2)"What is the real reloading schedule for a brace of pistols which are being shot, using the pistolier skill?"

Remember: You can only fire ONCE in a Shoot phase. If you use a blackpowder weapon then you can shoot once in the shooting phase followed by a non-shooting phase due to reloading.

Brace of pistols allows you to shoot every turn because you are firing one at a time. You just shot from pistol A and have moved onto your next Shoot Phase and you're shooting with pistol B while reloading pistol A, then your next Shooting Phase you fire pistol A while reloading pistol B; a continuous rotation.

The Pistolier skill:: If you only have 1 pistol: then you fire every round due to rapid reloading. If you have a brace of pistols then you can shoot twice in one Shooting Phase followed by the normal reloading rules in the next Shoot Phase. ...Now here is where it gets vague... The normal reloading rule stated under all the types of pistols is: Prepare shot: ~~A pistol takes a whole turn to reload. Meaning if you RAW that you can only reload ONE pistol a round.
So if you have Pistolier skill and a brace of pistols and you fire both pistols in one Shooting Phase then it would take 2 turns of your Shooting Phase doing nothing but reloading both pistols. You could revert back to firing every turn or skip a Shooting Phase to reload the 2nd pistol to prep for shooting both in the same Shooting Phase, or switch to your another missile weapon (Brace of pistols count as 1 missile weapon per FAQ).

Does that mean your mental record keeping just got ramped up? Oh heck yes!!

Our Modified House Rules:
If you shot in your shooting phase and then got charged in your opponents turn, then you could swap out weapons to your HtH weapons. We toyed with the idea that you could still get the S4 and the HtH bonus, but after looking at it from a sequence of events we felt that having 2 pistols magically being reloaded was a tad to much to swallow. You're reloading in your turn, not the opponents. As they say in LoTR; Its all about tactical placement of models. Meaning to look ahead to what you want to do and accomplish.

Firing a Brace with Pistolier meant you could fire both pistol in the same Shooting Phase and take only 1 Shooting Phase to reload both pistols. Mainly because to make pistols really effective you have to be within 3" (4" for Dwarf w/Engineer) and not have moved and hoping that your target isn't in cover!!

-Silk

[thesoundofmusica]

Whitesilk it would only take one turn of reloading before you can fire a single pistol again after having shot twice in the same turn since with a brace of pistols you can reload one and shoot the other in the same turn.

But see it gets even trickier.

If assumed that one reloads before shooting in the shooting phase, brace + pistolier looks like this:

T1: shoot twice
T2: reload one pistol
T3: reload second pistol and now able to fire twice again or just once if you wish to just repeat this step next turn

Does one reload AFTER shooting? That would mean that the pistol is ready to fire in the CC phase... Or do you perhaps reload in the recovery phase? Havent read the FAQ on this, might clear it up? If reloading is done after shooting, you would be forced two rounds of reloading and no shooting to ever fire it twice again.

[brokenv]

I always took it as in the model's recovery phase they are reloading if they are not in close combat.

[Richard_III]

The Way we always interpreted it.

Normally: T(urn)1 - Shoot 1; T2 - Reload; T3 - Shoot 1

With Pistoleer: T1 - Shoot 1; T2 reload 1 and Shoot 1; T3 reload 1 and shoot 1 (OR Shoot both at this time as they are both loaded)
OR T1 - Shoot Both; T2 - Reload Both; T3 - Shoot Both
OR T1 - Shoot Both; T2 - Reload 1 AND Shoot it; T3 Reload 1 and Shoot it

Basically it doubles what you can do in the shooting phase:
Normally: 1 ACTION per shooting phase, either Shoot OR Reload
With Pistoleer: 2 ACTIONS per shooting phase, either 2 Shots, 2 Reloads or 1 of each

[kramplarv]

What makes me confused is this;

Basically it doubles what you can do in the shooting phase:
Normally: 1 ACTION per shooting phase, either Shoot OR Reload
With Pistoleer: 2 ACTIONS per shooting phase, either 2 Shots, 2 Reloads or 1 of each

because I can never find any rules reference to doubling actions.. The only rules I see is the one saying that you may shoot with both pistols if you have pistolier. and/or shoot one pistol and reload one pistol fast. Nothing else.
I fail to see how the "fast reload" of 1 pistol when using pistolier, suddenly makes the warrior able to reload two pistols, twice as fast as normal. For me it is quite clear that "follow the normal reloading rules" rule suggests that you don't reload two guns at the same time all of a sudden.

[Richard_III]

What makes me confused is this;

because I can never find any rules reference to doubling actions.. The only rules I see is the one saying that you may shoot with both pistols if you have pistolier. and/or shoot one pistol and reload one pistol fast. Nothing else.
I fail to see how the "fast reload" of 1 pistol when using pistolier, suddenly makes the warrior able to reload two pistols, twice as fast as normal. For me it is quite clear that "follow the normal reloading rules" rule suggests that you don't reload two guns at the same time all of a sudden.

Logically, if one can EITHER shoot twice OR reload and shoot, it stands that if you do not shoot you can reload both weapons. Perhaps I am reading too much into the rules, but it stands to reason that it should work that way.