8th Edition 2012 book Empire Tactica

[RanaldLoec]

So here's the new Empire Tactica.

Im getting round to writing a summary each unit in turn in between work and family commitments.

Any members with a tactical summary for a character or unit pm me I will add it to the first few posts with a credit to the writer.

Allot of the character builds will be obsolete and the old thread appears not to have an update on the first post. The idea with this thread is to keep this post up to date and provide a brief summary of units, characters and tactics in the first few posts for newbies to view and for specific tactics vs other WFB armies.

I will be trawling though the monstrous old thread for any nuggets of info to repost that are still relevant when the new book is released in April.

PLEASE KEEP THE RUMOURS IN THE RUMOUR THREAD, THIS THREAD IS FOR SOLID TACTICS.

NOT GUESSES OF WHAT NEW UNITS MAY DO, BUT WHAT THE CAN DO.

Please keep trolls away and this isn't the place for posting how rubbish you think x,y and z is.

A unit may be sub par but this thread is for how to get the best from each unit regardless of its perceived power level.

[RanaldLoec]

Reserved for updates.

Core Choices


Halberdiers

Cheap troops with st4 in combat, they will die very quickly in combat to any unit with st4 or multiple attacks. Beware of units with poison. Still a solid choice as its our only st4 core infantry.

Swordsmen

The anvil unit, with ws4 and a 5+ save and 6+ parry ward. More expensive than our other state troops but with an advantage. Ws4 is less about hitting easier and more harder to hit. Being hit on 4+ instead of 3+ means these guys last longer. With allot of ws4 core troops knocking about and some ws4 elite, these guys stay steadfast for longer. Swordsmen work best in narrow 5 wide with deep ranks as this limits the number of models your opponent can allocate to them.

Spearmen

The cheapest core choice, mainly defensive due to the fight in extra rank rules. Like Swordsmen mainly run in a narrow frontage with deep ranks.

Freecompanie

Cheap and with no armour save but gain an extra attack. Commonly used as detachments, most players prefere halberdiers for st4 or the more survive able swordsmen

Handgunners
Hand gunners st4 armour piecering, with a 24 inch range. Most armies are in close combat come turn 2/3 meaing you have a limited time to use you handgunners effectively. Position is key any time spent moving is a turns shooting wasted.

Crossbowmen
Similar handgunners st4 with a 30 inch range. That extra 6 inches makes a big difference. Been able to shoot on turn one and they dont have to move to gain range on most targets. The loss of the armour piercing has to be weighed up by the increase in range.

Archers
Archers the only accessable core skirmishing unit, being able to march, reform and shoot gives archers alot of options in a game were postioning and movement is still important. Archers can be used to outflank and harasses enemy units and warmachines. Being susceptable to magic missles is a commen argument for not taking these guys.

Knightly Orders
Provide a mobile flanking unit or a useable tarpit to hold in place enemy units for a flank charge. The arguement between using lance and greatweapons is a matter of opinion, lance armed knights make the most efective tarpit when coupled with a captain or general with the crown of command. Greatweapons make excellent flanking units vs large or strong units where return attacks are limited while you can bring all your st5 attacks to bear.




Inner Circle Knights

A great core option to field a hard hitting strength 4 unit that hits at strength 6 with lance or great weapons. The increased points cost is the one deciding factor, in smaller games those extra points could come in more usefull else where.


Specail Choices


Great Cannon

Monster killing, character sniper super gun. If its big and expensive your great cannon will kill it in a few shots unless you misfire.

Mortar

Some what reduced in power but with an engineers reroll and BS 4 they can be quite accurate. That large template still counts for allot.

Greatswords

Hard hitting st5 with stubborn. These guys make a wonderful anvil unit or a hammer. Combined with a warrior priest should be a standard in all Empire armies for the prayers and hatered. A good Target for wissens wild form.

Outriders

BS 4 with multiple shots, these guys never fail to impress and put out an alarming amount of shots. The lore of heavens works wonders on these guys been able to reroll all 1's. The lore of metal +1 to hit is also a solid boost giving them effective BS5.


Reiksguard Knights

Inner circle knights with the stubborn special rule, these guys hit at strength 6 on the charge and keep that 1+ save. Some would question stubborn on a unit of lance armed knights as its usually wanted for prolonged combats where greatweapon armed core knights are preferable due to the high strength weapons in subsequent rounds. Great tarpit unit when coupled with hold the line.

Pistoliers
A mobile fast cavalry unit which has a powerfull shooting attack (when it hits). Usefull for picking off small supporting units or flanking units to take potshots at the flank. Usefull for clearing enemy skirmishes but beware poisonus oppenents, T3 and a 5+ armour save means these guys wont last long if given any attention from shooting or magic.

Demigryph Knights
A hard hitting unit with a great 1+ armour save and 3 wounds. The debate between lances and halberds is a personel one, some argue that an extra stregnth 5 attack is better for prolonged combats which 8th ed sees allot of. Others point out that with a 1+ armour save the unit will take less casualties in prolonged combats keeping them around longer. Regardless of weapon choices a solid hardhitting unit. They wont by breaking any mass infantry formations by them selves.

Huntsmen

Flagellants


Rare Choices


Helblaster Volley Gun
By itself this unit appears average with st5 and bs3 and armour piercing. At range hitting becomes a problem, similarly the likely hood of a misfire on three dice is unerving. Adding in an engineer really boosts this warmachine. BS 4 with a misfire reroll

Helstorm Rocket Battery
Again by itself it appears an average artrillery piece with the potential of pushing out D3 small blast st3 templates which is always in accurate. Placing an enginner with the warmachine means increased accuracy with the bs 4 and been able to reroll thatn misfire or 10.

Steam Tank
A swiss army knife unit, great at range with a cannon and a hochland longrifle. Tough enough but be a great tarpit and the hardist hitting hammer unit we have. If only taken for one of the above options it becomes exspensive but in an al comers list its comes into its own.

Celestial Hurricanum
A cheap unit that brings a number of abililities to the battle field, adding power dice to the magic phase. +1 to it in combat coupled with a warrior priests hatered this becomes very powerfull with the right units. A cheap to cast innate ability that acts as a more powerfull mortar with interesting side effects.

Luminark of Hysh

[RanaldLoec]

Reserved for updates.2

Characters

Lords


General of the Empire
A lord character with stats similar to most armies heros, but then generals aren't combat characters their leaders. The biggest advantage to generals is "hold the line" the ability to roll 3 dice and discard the highest on break tests makes large units of steadfast or stubborn troops hard to move. Combine with a cheap block of spearmen for a tarpit or Greatswords for a hard hitting anvil.

Combined with a decent armour save, ward and crown of command this guy will anchor any unit in place.

Wizard Lord

With access to all the brb lores at any level the only army with greater choice in lores is high elves.

Your lore choice can make or break your list, in a shooting heavy list lore of metal or heavens can help you to hit. In character heavy combat lists lore of beasts. For all comer lists shadow and life give a wide range of hexs, augments and damage spells.

This subject could have a whole thread to itself but the one tip I've picked up is more often than not its the small hexs and augments that win me the games.

Arch Lector

Grandmaster


Heros

Captain of the Empire

There are loads of builds for the Captain on Pegasus. It all comes down to what you are looking for from him. If we start at the base of fullplate, pegasus and shield, we have a model with ws5 bs5 str4 t4 3w 3attacks and init5 with a 2+ save, backed by a further 2 s4 attacks and a possible stomp. 5-6 strength 4 attacks makes a viable flanker with out any buffs at all. He's going to put out decent damage without taking much in return and the +1 for being in a flank never goes amiss. Just stating at the base he makes a decent flanker, chaff clearer, and warmachine hunter while staying light on the points total. What he doesn't do in this configuration is really what makes the magical item selection crucial.

Ethereals - my favorite builds would be armed with sword of might/battle, enchanted shield, potion of foolhardiness, and luckstone. Most of these minor magical items don't make for much on their own, but when facing t3 units with no save, they make a power house. Sword of battle with the potion of foolhardiness gives him 5 attacks on the charge wounding on 3s. For defense he now has a 1+ save with a possible reroll if he needs it, that usually sees him through the worst the enemy throw at him untill he gets his job done. Important to not that in this cofiguration he is still able to do the other three rolls a basic pegasus captain can do, only he is better at them.

Wizard hunting - Sword of Swift slaying, The other trickster's shard, and the dragonhelm make an excellent wizard hunter. ASF allows this build to go either before the bunker protecting the wizard or at the same time while also allowing the captain to reroll to hit against most of his favored targets. The other trickster's shard forces the defending wizard to reroll successful ward saves as we all know that is likely where the talisman of preservation is going to be. The Dragonhelm offers a bit of duallality with this build as in many tounament lists the banner of eternal flame is in a unit to handle regenerating monsters. Equiped with the dragon helm and with hold the line, the captain on pegasus can hold these units in place for a long long time.

Road block - Crown of Command, Dragonhelm, Lance and Luckstone. Stubborn with leadership 8 and hold the line gives you a .5% chance to fail a break test, I'd call that reliable. After that we stack as much survive-ability on to the captain as we can. Dragonhelm and luckstone being my personal favorites as it atleast gives him a chance at a 2++ and one reroll. Against a standard rank and file, he should last plenty long enough to hold them in place until you want to deal with them. If you want to, you can spend a few more points and make this a General of the Empire to up his magical item allowance and his leadership by a point. This will lead to more survive-ability but at a sizable increase in points cost. I would only do this if there is a unit you really need to lock down in the opposing force.

As you can see the Captain on Pegasus has many possible loadouts, all of which can be useful. It really comes down to what you need him to do. As a side note, you may have noticed that I did not include the charmed shield in any of these builds. If you are fearful of warmachines sniping this character, the charmed shield can be swaped out for any of the magical armors listed. I feel that the inclusion of cannons in most empire lists eliminates the need for the charmed shield as our guns are more then an answer to someone elses.

By MORAX

*Battle Standard

Wizard

Warrior Priest

Witch Hunter (ohhhhh very excited to provide a summary for this chap).

Master Engineer


Specail Characters

Lords

The Emperor; Karl Franz
* on a dragon
* Deathclaw
* Barded Warhorse
* On foot

Kurt Helborg

Volkmar the Grim

Balthsar Gelt


Heros

Ludwig the Emperors Champion

Cheaper than his incarnation from previous edition but more expensive than fully kitted standard BSB. With an extra 25 p. cost You essentialy buy him a magic sword and AWEsome 18" LD reroll bubble. Very usefull for many Imperial builds based on line defence or defence with agrresive part of the line. It is a lions share of the table coverage and with Imperial Armybook trend of spaming stubborn units effectively spreads the line giving a solid line anchors around which player have much more space for war machnes, detachments, other small support units like knights, etc. He may be a key for game of castles made of stubborn troops, which lock enemy units in a combat while empire player is succesively finishing them with support hammers. "And so, with a small axe, but with many cuts, he fell mighty tree". like poet wrote If used properly can deprive enemy of freedom of movement onwards, what can enable Imperial forces cutting enemy forces in waves, or forcing them into fights on uneven rules (like outside generals/bsb range, support, hard terrain, etc.). Also think pistoliers pulling tactics as it widens their safe rally zone.

- It comes with a cost of loosing Hold the Line rule which comes with "normal" BSB. This may be a bit disappointing(?) but it always actually was a part of his fluff, he is a champion, killer, towering figure (hence his combat abilities, bit above "normal BSB) not a commander trained in arts of strategy. But although a Bodyguard that man needs a bodyguard(s) himself, so knights and WP/GM/GotE/Cap.(those only if well above 2k or when it's Your only hammers. comes with him. He also should not go into prolonged fight so inner cirle knights designated for hammering are favourable .
(by Tuttivillus) thanks

Luther Huss

With all the normal abilities of a warrior priest solid with a decent save and a solid ward makes him hard to shift. Unending righteousness makes his unit stubborn, the ability that really is the icing on the cake is the chosen of sigmar.

Marcus (new guy unsure of placing in hero or lords)

[RanaldLoec]

Reserved for updates.3

Magic Items



Army Tactics


The Altdorf Royal Academy of Officers Treaties on Infantry Tactics



The Nuln Artillery School presents: How to kill scary stuff before it kills you.



Reiksguard Treaties on cavalry combat

[RanaldLoec]

Reserved for updates.4

Empire vs Tactics

Vs Demons

Vs Darkelves

Vs Dwarves

Vs Bretonnia

Vs Skaven

Vs Tomb Kings

Vs Vampire Counts

Vs Ogre Kingdoms

Vs Lizardmen

Vs Warriors of Chaos

Vs Orcs & Goblins

Vs Highelves

Vs Woodelves

[RanaldLoec]

Reserved for updates.5

[RanaldLoec]

Reserved for updates.6

[RanaldLoec]

Last one promise, Reserved for updates.

[RanaldLoec]

Bump to the top.

[Soulless]

Ok so i think as most of us either have the book ( got myself this baby this morning ) or know the points cost from the closed thread lets start our deliberations from the definition of standard unit sizes.

I think 30 is the default size for a well thought out empire unit of infantry. The main change is the shift from sword to halberd. Will you deploy your units 30 strong either 5x6 or 6x5 or you will risk and take more durable yet easier to hit contingents of 40 guys ? Remember that empire unit with detachments can get pretty expensive pretty fast and we need the points to buy all the stuff that really does the damage.

[jonnywright104]

Ok so i think as most of us either have the book ( got myself this baby this morning ) or know the points cost from the closed thread lets start our deliberations from the definition of standard unit sizes.

I think 30 is the default size for a well thought out empire unit of infantry. The main change is the shift from sword to halberd. Will you deploy your units 30 strong either 5x6 or 6x5 or you will risk and take more durable yet easier to hit contingents of 40 guys ? Remember that empire unit with detachments can get pretty expensive pretty fast and we need the points to buy all the stuff that really does the damage.

Why change from swords to halberds? explain please!

Sorry to say but you are mistaken. They cost just the same, and they only have 1 attack each, plus the front rank's horses.



The only real advantage over handgunners is that they can flee faster. The additional BS compensates for the multishot, and you only have 5 wounds, albeit with some level of armour. Of course those 105 points get you 4 more shots.

Outriders can potentially be deployed behind other infantry. Their elevated position can mean that they shoot without any modifiers but will only be hit at -2. It's a niche application though I think.

Handgunners have a 6+ save, outriders a 5+ (light armour and mounted)

[GodlessM]

Why change from swords to halberds? explain please!

Because they both went up a point but the Swords lost a point of Initiative, so the Halberds are now more cost effective (it's almost better just to have more bodies now instead of paying more for parry).

[Jezbot]

Why change from swords to halberds? explain please!

For dealing out damage, halberds were and still are the best option in the list, even after going up a point in price.

Whereas swordsmen are now 2 points more than spearmen, and lost their extra point of initiative. So if you want something to just hang around and be defensive, spearmen have become much better (paying 40% more for WS, an extra point in armour, and a parry save, while losing an extra rank of attacks is just too much). Especially when Warrior Priests can now give the whole unit a 5+ ward save, more than countering the best thing swordsmen had going for them.

[Laughingmonk]

For dealing out damage, halberds were and still are the best option in the list, even after going up a point in price.

Whereas swordsmen are now 2 points more than spearmen, and lost their extra point of initiative. So if you want something to just hang around and be defensive, spearmen have become much better (paying 40% more for WS, an extra point in armour, and a parry save, while losing an extra rank of attacks is just too much). Especially when Warrior Priests can now give the whole unit a 5+ ward save, more than countering the best thing swordsmen had going for them.

You also have to remember that swordsmen come with a shield. Also, the WS difference means that against a ws4 enemy they will be hit on fours, rather than 3's in the case of spearmen. Warrior priests can confer a ward save, true, but you can also add the cost of the warrior priest to that unit. The higher weapon skill can also means more attacks may hit, and while not as good as an extra rank, it is still something to be considered.

I'd say they are pretty balanced against eachother.

[Jezbot]

You also have to remember that swordsmen come with a shield. Also, the WS difference means that against a ws4 enemy they will be hit on fours, rather than 3's in the case of spearmen. Warrior priests can confer a ward save, true, but you can also add the cost of the warrior priest to that unit. The higher weapon skill can also means more attacks may hit, and while not as good as an extra rank, it is still something to be considered.

I'd say they are pretty balanced against eachother.

If you think so, fair enough. I thought the advantages were worth a little more than 1 point, as it was in the old book. Now that Swordsmen are a little worse (no initiative 4, army has access to lots of wards saves) and the difference is 2 points, I really can't justify it.

[D'Haran]

30 would only be a default size for non-detachment combat units, there are plenty of units I'd field with less than 30 (anything that can shoot basically). With the increased costs of almost every unit I'm tempted to go 6x5 and take no horde core units, rather just use them as anvils with a captain while more killy elements of the army do the dirty work.

[SteelTitan]

What changed to not make the 40 strong halbedier horde with warrior priest a staple?

[stereynolds]

What changed to not make the 40 strong halbedier horde with warrior priest a staple?

Was it ever a staple? I was under the impression sword blocks and spear blocks werre the staple prior to the new book. Halberdier detatchments yes but horde units?

[Spiney Norman]

What changed to not make the 40 strong halbedier horde with warrior priest a staple?

Halberdiers became more expensive and detachment rules changed.

IMHO the new staple of my list will be a large unit of Spearmen led by a warrior priest with 2 maxed out halberdier detachments. All prayer buffs and hatred, plus steadfast are passed on to the detachments, the Halberds get into the flanks if you place them right and thus take less damage.

Ive been playing around with different options in the new book, Please evaluate the potential of this Lord build

Battle wizard Lord
Level 4, Imperial Griffon, Van Horstmann's speculum, The fencers blades

[Tuttivillus]

Battle wizard Lord
Level 4, Imperial Griffon, Van Horstmann's speculum, The fencers blades

??? Is that possible to use them while mouted?