8th Edition 2012 book Empire Tactica

[Snowflake]

Wrong, you use the thoughness of the rider for combat, not the mount.

Ahh, true enough, my apologies. Taking that into account though, they actually still come out being very resilient. With S4 attacks you need 9 hits to get one unsaved wound (assuming lances, thank you 1+). Compare this to Mournfangs, which are considered very durable. You only need 6 S4 hits to get a wound through Mournfangs. Granted, they don't have the hitting power of Mournfangs, but they still come off looking pretty good, even with the T3. When you factor in the WS4 on the Demigryphs rather than the 3 for Mournfangs, they become significantly more resilient against common S4 attacks.

Against S5 attacks you need 3.6 hits on the Demigryphs to do a wound, with 3 needed for Mournfangs, so they're still better there, too.

[jtrowell]

Redirect with what? We don't have cheap redirectors.

I use small detachments of 5 archers, they are skirmishers so are slightly harder to kill with BS fire and can march and fire (not very well, but the occasionnal wound on a support unit could make a difference)

The ability to reform at will is also useful for a redirector, ensuring that they are where I need them, in the orientation I need to redirect.

[Fieos]

With the Demigryphs, steam tank, and chariots.... Life lore looks to be even more valuable to Empire in the 8th edition book.

[BEARO]

With the Demigryphs, steam tank, and chariots.... Life lore looks to be even more valuable to Empire in the 8th edition book.

This brings up a good question:

What will your Lv.4 be taking in most games? Right now I'm at Metal, Shadow or Light.

Metal because of Spirit of the Forge, Enchanted Blades stacking with Hurricanum, Glittering Scales for even more armor! (Great Swords with 2+ armor!), and the armor debuffs on heavily armored units that we might have trouble with.

Shadow.. because Shadow is great overall.

and Light because.. WS10 I10, harder to hit in CC and in ranged, Nets and Banishment, and ofc, Timewarp.

[Askari]

I still think Light is the way to go for my Empire. Shadow is of course nice, but the number of Shadow spells I'd really like to use is less than Light spells - which also have lowish casting values and more area buffs. I've tried Metal but it's a little bit situational for my use, although Final Transmutation is a great spell as, for some reason, it's rated much lower than Dwellers, Pit of Shades and Purple Sun for super-killy death, while still capable of crippling units.

Level 4 Light and Level 2 Shadow is my go-to spellcaster choices.

[Von Wibble]

I'm using heavens, but this is because I have a Hurricanum and feel it wouldn't be right to have one without the other. The first spell tbh is really good anyway - reroll all 1s within 12" (given you are 3s to hit and wound in a lot of cases) for only 12 casting. I like wind blast for trying to set up cannon shots. In fact, the only spell I don't rate is the 6th one.

But yes, Shadow is probably the most powerful. Signature spell on WS with hurricanum means you hit on 2s and they hit on 4s at best. Plus the rest of the spells, many of which win battles on their own.

[Tuttivillus]

Jeeeeezzzz.... This book is a stubborn spam . First impressions :

On SC's:
-Luthor is back on the menu with a style and comfy pointdrop.
-Ludvig Schwarzhelm - well, guy is really impressing now. Cheaper and his Hold Your Ground rule going in 18" (!!!) bubble will be hard for Empire's enemies. I can even forgive that his lacking HtL rule
-Balthasar Gelt- I really like how his MagRes works now.
-Markus Wulfheart- i can see his uses, his point cost is ok. He is a new toy for incoming trend - monsters in every army. Artillery nerf is aimed at that. We get his full value when most of ABooks will be upgraded to 8th ed. or in SoM games (if there is anyone playing them still). Nice , fluffy, can prove usefull. someone mentioned that another cannon would do the trick as well, but he has some adventages over a cannon : scout and no misfire are both solid. His scouts are also not so expensive points wise, in last ABook normal scouts costed 10 pts. so paing 1 more for his abilities is quite ok. Nice team for forest setup or watchtower scenario.

Lords&Heroes:

BSB - some cool things here: can take a shield and other equipment, hell, even ride a pegasus
Engineer - hmmm....mine will have only one experimental weapon. Hellblaster it is indeed !!!

Units:
Infantry - that will be couple of hard battles to check how things are done on the ground level. For me all three main core combat choices are viable, thanks to detachment rule i can see all of them present on the board, but in different roles. It all depends on strategy for your army, way how You want to win, than You place a foundation from that core.
Cavalry got much, much cheaper. I save points not only on knights but on a command groups as well. I am violently happy with that.
Hellstorm-it is good choice, especially against soft horde armies like skaven. Nice. Can't wait to try it out.

so much for now. back to reading

[GodlessM]

It will be Life or Light for me; if there is no Altar however then definitely Life.

[Still Standing]

I plan on running level 2 Beasts and Light Wizards in all my lists for boosting my melee blocks, then a level 4 Death Wizard in anything above 2000 points. Combined with a couple of Warrior Priests and a Wizard Wagon this should be more than enough unit boosting.

[Asuryan's Spear]

while we're on the subject of magic, ive had great success with my lvl 1 toting beasts. wyssans wildform takes demigryphs on to a whole new level of nasty. and its at +1 to cast

[Ouroborus]

Yeah, most of my lists will probably revolve around a hoard of great swords with a warrior priest in the unit from now on. Wild form on them as well makes them a crazy good anvil.

[Tuttivillus]

while we're on the subject of magic, ive had great success with my lvl 1 toting beasts. wyssans wildform takes demigryphs on to a whole new level of nasty. and its at +1 to cast

Good one!!!!

Choice is really hard for Empire, so many fine spells. Light, Beasts, heavens, shadow for me. In mixed numbers and combinations.

[Lord Solar Plexus]

detachments don't get supporting charges now either, which kinda forces you to play more defensively, as it will be really hard to get in a flank with a support charge

No more harder than to be steadfast, ie. in a vacuum we don't know. A horde charging your horde should be no problem, a bus charging any of your formations shouldn't either. The problem is that enemy armies often have more than one unit, too. It doesn't even have to charge or to make the charge roll, just getting in the way could be all that's needed.

A tight formation of Empire troops can also be detrimental, so remember to leave enough room for a wheel.

I plan on running level 2 Beasts and Light Wizards in all my lists for boosting my melee blocks, then a level 4 Death Wizard in anything above 2000 points. Combined with a couple of Warrior Priests and a Wizard Wagon this should be more than enough unit boosting.

Hopefully you will still have anything to boost what with a dozen characters around.

Either way, there's no way you will have anywhere near enough PD for that combo. Channeling only goes so far, and one-dicing can see you losing more dice than your opponent.

[Soulless]

I most often run shadow on 2 lvl mage and life on 4 lvl but started thinking about 2lvl Beast and 4 lvl shadows and skip life all together ...

[Private_SeeD]

OKay folks, I have most of this stuff and plan on having a force of 2000pts.
With my list so far

Hero/Lord
Warrior Priest
BSB - FPA, Enchanted shield and Talisman of Endurance
Witch Hunter - Brace of Pistols
Battle Wizard - lvl 1 Beast or Life

Core
46 Halberdiers with shields plus Full command
20 Militia Detachment
10 Handgunners with Musician detachment

Special
5 Outriders with musician
Cannon
Mortar

Rare
Helblaster Volley Gun
Celestial Hurricanum

Battle Plan
BSB, Witch Hunter and Battle Wizard with the Halberdiers
Master Engineer with the artillery

Now I was thinking of adding another 10 hand gunners to the detachment. Also my Witch hunter, warrior priest and battle wizard are naked. I have about 500pts left over so can tool them up. I have a block of 30+ swordsmen which I could use or I could just use 8 Knights with FC to bolster my core and then sqeeze in 4 Demigryph with FC which should take me to around the 1950 mark, what you guys think?

[Still Standing]

Hopefully you will still have anything to boost what with a dozen characters around.

Either way, there's no way you will have anywhere near enough PD for that combo. Channeling only goes so far, and one-dicing can see you losing more dice than your opponent.

3 Mages and 2 Priests is hardly a dozen. I am new to all this Empire stuff, but my current / old WFB army is a Tzeentch Warriors army, running 3 offensive mages easily, so why do you think I wont be able to manage to keep a few augments up, especially since you can 1 dice the Priests buffs without worrying.

[BEARO]

For the leaders of Empire, I'm thinking about running the following (using a unit bucket formula):
- Lv.4 Wizard (Dispel Scroll) - Must have in most lists I think
- 2x Warrior Priests (Heavy Armor, Shield) - Spread Hatred and spam 1-die spells to draw enemy DD.
- BSB Captain (Enchanted Shield, Full Plate, 4+ Ward) - Solid BSB to Hold the Line! (2+/4++)
- General (FPA, Barded Horse, Stubborn Helm, Dawnstone, 5+ Ward) - To go with ICK.

I plan on having..
A big block of Halbs (1 WP here), a big block of Greatswords (another WP here), a big block of ICK with my Stubborn General, and a big block of Reiksguard Knights.
Does anyone else see the theme I'm going for here?

[RanaldLoec]

If you think its a great model, buy it, paint it, and display it. Or use it as a basic captain. Only play things if they are good to play.
If you want great fluff, read books, there is no reason to include bad things in your list.

Yes. 100% no reason to take him. He costs more than twice the points of a captain, with no save of any kind, and the same profile. He has a basic longbow which does D3 wounds against monsters, and always wounds them on a 4+. They still get their full armor save.

His huntsman are 37% more expensive, and gain a rule that makes them ItP (but who cares because anything that hits them in combat will wipe them anyway, regardless of fear/terror) and a rule that lets them reroll to hit against monsters. With BS3 and S3 bows. So.... in effect they are worthless against monsters anyway.

So yes, there is no point in taking him.

Sad, because if he instead gave all of his huntsmen a similar ability to his own bow, he would be worth it to take at least in fluffy games. I support use of fluffy lists unless something is just SO HORRIBLY BAD that there is zero point in including it in your list.

Go play warmachine

Use what ever model you like its a great reason to use him.

Whut are you thinking when you posted that.

Honestly its a fun game the win isn't all you might learn that some day Whut.

[Soulless]

Guys one thing strikes me when i see your unit comp. No one uses feedback scroll. In normal list its not that good of an item but in empire where you can easy have 2+ hochland this item is a beast. The main downside of it is that it rarely kills enemy mages. But in Empire list we can finish of what it has started with Hochland. Ask yourself this - how many people will risk seeing his mage feedbacked to death after beeing hit with HLR before ?

[Still Standing]

Go play warmachine

Use what ever model you like its a great reason to use him.

Whut are you thinking when you posted that.

Honestly its a fun game the win isn't all you might learn that some day Whut.

This is a tactica thread. Lets keep the background related stuff to the background forum. "I want to use this unit because it looks cool" isn't a good enough justification for a tactica.