My Rulebook Errata - links to everything (For Tulkas)

[Richard_III]

So a bit about this - Many Moons ago I ran a VERY long term Mordheim Campaign and with that myself and my players noticed some significant game balance issues (and some rules that worked totally illogically). I made some changes and my players voted unanimously (time and again) to use these totally Unofficial Errata and Rules. They have been kicking around on my computer for the better part of the decade - so I finally fgured I would at least put it out there for those that want to take some (or all) of these ideas for use in your own campaign

Additionally I have included something a bit special - the Vampire Bloodline Rules - these were written for Town Cryer Magazine and edited by the great Steve Hambrook for publishing before his untimely passing. Also, due to his sudden and tragic death, this article was never published. I have retained the rules however for the last 9 years untouched - just as Mr. Hambrook finalized them - and thought I would finally share them with everyone, at least get them out there.

That was the inspiration for putting it all out there.

I am happy to answer ANY questions as to why I made the choices I did (I tried very hard not to change things just for the sake of changing them) but bare in mind that a big part of this was balance, but also to make the rule more "universal" in other words I did my best to bring them more in line with other Games Workshop "Fantasy" games (Specifically Warhammer Fantasy Battles 6th edition at the time of the writings)

I really hope you all enjoy them.

Richard III


OK here is Everything-

Included is the Vampire Rules
http://return-to-mordheim.blogspot.c...loodlines.html

The Rulebook Errata
http://return-to-mordheim.blogspot.c...-rulebook.html

The new Price Chart
http://return-to-mordheim.blogspot.c...ok-errata.html

And The Main Page (where if you look to the right you can find all the individual Warbands in the Archive to the Right.
http://return-to-mordheim.blogspot.com/

[shotguncoffee]

I looked around, i must say its not entirely clear to me how and what you've changed. (with witch hunters, for example)

we can easily agree that the mordheim rules need to be more balanced and less cluttered, yet from my glance at your page, it seems you're continuing in the vein of the original rules writers. in one could perhaps express it pointedly, it would seem that you propose to fix clutter with more clutter? if balance is the aim, true balance is best achieved by simple, clean, clear rules and few options that are all meaningful.

at any time you give players and buckload of random, flavorful options, you create the classic gw mire: army selection and finding broken combinations becomes more important than tactical descisions on the field of battle. i know coreheim isnt everyone's cup of tea, and last time i talked to Asp we was working on something a bit closer to GW, more organic and flavorful and less sterile than coreheim, but i still think that the *core dynamics* of a table top tactics game are better served by a coreheim-like engine than trying to balance out the odds and ends of a fundamentally flawed system like gws.

[Tulkas]

All right, cool Richard. I've had a brief look so far, but there are a few mistakes (cant just call it typo's). Flagellants have the description of Marksmen and the Rat ogre stats ain't Rat-Ogrey at all. I'll check out the rest too and email/ PM you what I find. This thread doesn't have to be about that.

Other than that, I don't entirely agree with shotguncoffee. I'm liking what I've seen so far (I think I can fill in any eventual blanks caused by a wrong copy/ paste). Will give it all a read and we can use this thread to discuss/ clear up misconceptions?

[shotguncoffee]

btw, do you know this: http://indadvendt.dk/fixed-mordheim/core_warbands.pdf ?

[Tulkas]

Hmmm, I've seen that before coffee, but I think that's more along the lines of 'change in the name of change' and I don't really see alot in there that I deem an improvement instead of a mere change.

Richard, one thing I don't get is why do you give all the captains two wounds and two attacks, yet do not have them cost more than the Vampire? Stat wise they're along the same lines now but they don't cost the same. Is that because of the 'Undead' rules the Vamp. has as well?

[Richard_III]

Shotguncoffee - Admittedly there was very little I changed with regards to Witch Hunters, except for the fact that now, Warband Max Size is 15 (18 if you take the max number of wardogs who now count as a 1/2 warrior and max at 6) and like all warbands, the Witch Hunter Captain (Leader) starts with an extra Wound and Attack as well as a skill.

Richard, one thing I don't get is why do you give all the captains two wounds and two attacks, yet do not have them cost more than the Vampire? Stat wise they're along the same lines now but they don't cost the same. Is that because of the 'Undead' rules the Vamp. has as well?

The Vampire under the Errata rules still has many advantages over virtually every other captain, the strength and toughness of 4, undead rules which prevent being stunned and access to the Bloodline rules. I am an avid Vampire player, I can attest that he is still worth it (even with my "reduced" max stats)

As to the Mistakes, Thank you for pointing them out - I will correct them

[Richard_III]

Hahaha - I just fixed the Rat Ogre - Thanks for that heads up!

Let me explain a little bit about the overall project. Most of the changes were centered around changing weapon special rules, especially things that seemed ridiculous like a spear that allowed full allotment of attacks if charged - or the Quickshot skill allowing 2 shots with a crossbow (which is notoriously slow to reload). I also tried to make Armour a little better, especially Shields - as it was ALWAYS better to take a second hand weapon instead. Making Ithilmar Armour "count" as Light armour so those warbands restricted from using heavy armour could use it. I tried to make leaders a little better - so that other warband members don't surpass them in stats/skills after a few games because of the Experience gap (originally I tried just reducing all exp to Zero, but that didn't work as well b/c of the extra exp the leader gets auto) - I tried to balance the Max Warrior issue where Skaven and Orcs can take up to 20 members so they have room to take giant rats and goblins, except that you don't have to so you can actually take 20 Orcs! (my rules fix that) - To allow new Warbands to have a better chance to catch up if they get into the campaign after it's been going on for a while (exploration underdog rules), not just with exp, but with Money - greatly needed if you enter a campaign later on - giving Henchmen a bit of starting kit - giving Hired Swords a little more flavor by having them use Hero Injury charts

For the most part I re-wrote the Warband rules to include new Max Warrior types and Max stats for each, any Special Rules that needed to be changed, who counts as 2 Warriors, Who counts as 1/2 a warrior - any special weapon rules that need to be changed

But at the same time - I absolutely did NOT want to change everything - in fact I tried very hard to take a minimalist approach, and ONLY change things that I felt NEEDED to be changed, for balance or for reasons of logic.

[MeanBone]

I'm liking a lot of your changes, Richard. I agree with taking a minimalist approach and only changing what NEEDS changing. Thanks for all your work!

[Richard_III]

If anyone is interested I have made some minor changes from what I originally posted:

Changes are as follows:

FIRST "Fighting with Two Weapons", I got some complaints because I made it a bit too restrictive (-1 to hit for all attacks without "Two Weapon Style" skill) and have thus changed it to read: Warriors that do not possess the “Two Weapon Style” skill and use an additional hand weapon do not benefit from the special rules of the additional weapon used (but can still benefit from the special rules of weapons used in the "main" hand), it only confers a single extra attack (however if a critical hit is scored, use the appropriate weapon's table as normal).

The "Two Weapon Style" skill still exists and now allows for the user to get the special rules for the weapon in addition to the extra attack


SECOND I have changed ALL instances of "Move or Fire" to "Move or Reload", the rules for that should be fairly obvious, must stand still to reload the weapon, not to shoot it. Makes for a bit more keeping track w/ regards to who has shot, but it should be manageable and makes a bit more sense.


Enjoy-