In Defense of Death-Stars

**Thesmash** · 28-03-2012, 04:50

Ok, so since the beginng of 5th edition there has been a rise of a particular type of unit. The concept is to take an expensive unit with a lot of dudes (relativaly speaking), give it upgrades, attach an character or two, and hit what ever you can. I am of course refering to the death-star unit.

Now I know a lot of competative players do not like this sort of unit, because it falls under the All Your Eggs In One Basket syndrome, but I would like to say that death-star can work. There are a couple of reasons for this.

First off I would like to state that not every deathstar will work and using them requires more than just a point and click attittude. So with this in mind I will list the criterien that I believe will make a good death-star. First you need a large and imposing threat bubble, either by powerful range weapons or by large moblity. This ensures that your oppent can not just maneuver around your large and expensive unit. Second you need durablity, it is not usally a good thing to have 500 points sunk with one battle cannon shot. Finally, and this should be obivous, but your unit needs combat punch.

So why does this sort unit work? Well it forces your oppenent to commit a large portion of their army to deal with one unit or risk losing a lot of their own force. How can one unit created enough havoc to justify an outrages point cost? There are a couple of ways. Multi-assult is one your biggest assets and will often show the true potential of a death-star unit. Also remeber that independent characters are, well, independent, Mmeaning that those expansive wolf-lords can break off of and do their own thing as your thunder-wolves eat a rhino. Also rember that range weapon punch is a very valuable asset as a death star is a hard to destroy platform, In genral just remeber that expanding the role of the death-star will help make it more viable and force your oppnent to deal with it quickly.

**ErictheGreen** · 29-03-2012, 13:31

Wasn't this posted on BoLS not long ago?

**Russell's teapot** · 29-03-2012, 14:59

Yes, and it's as rubbish here as it was there...

**ColShaw** · 29-03-2012, 15:05

Relying on multi-assault is very foolish, as it relies on your opponent making mistakes in deployment and movement.

The idea of "shooty" deathstars is also flawed, as the most effective shooting units in the game tend to be very points efficient, like Long Fangs, Dakka Predators, Rifledreads, and a lot of Imperial Guard stuff.

So yeah... I have to agree with Russell's teapot here. I don't use deathstar units myself... mainly because I remember what happened to the original Death Star I & II. If memory serves, didn't they get blown up by little guys?

**ErictheGreen** · 29-03-2012, 15:27

many many little guys.

oh look, another point for MSU

**FraustyTheSnowman** · 29-03-2012, 15:58

Yeah, but it was that one really Really REALLY whiney bugger that pulled the triger and stole everyone elses frag...

**Clarkson** · 29-03-2012, 16:04

does this look like BOLS? nope not to me either...

DeathStars work because they are difficult to kill.. so you either ignore them and get owned or face them and the chaff left over hurts you badly...

BUT it takes tactics to make it work.. usually they roll in w/e is best for them (usually a LR or DS) then they can cross the board quickly.

and usually the games you are playing are small, ie 1500, or huge, 3k+, where the deathstar can either bully smaller armies or be supported by, as you stated, platforms of shooty killy death, or worst case scenario... can fit 2-3 deathstars in a list..

its risky to run them, as they are not unbreakable, and usually an army falls apart very quickly when they do..

I have a friend in 1750 dedicated at least 1k in a deathstar.. that he fully expects to die... so his less annoying stuff is protected or do what they are there for... objective sitting.. while the big unit is killed (basically the meat shield)

**ErictheGreen** · 29-03-2012, 16:08

or, y'know, the smart player ignores/blocks/tarpits the big scary death unit and kills the objective holding chaff then uses his (more numerous) units to take the objectives.

i've seen deathstars roll over newbs and moderately experienced player. I've never seen a competitive tournament player use a deathstar unit. that should tell you something.

**Bunnahabhain** · 29-03-2012, 16:16

Deathstars are indeed difficult to kill if you're badly set up. However, assuming a competent player and reasonable list, they don't work nearly as well.

For instance, let us look at the ever popular Terminators + character in Land raider, which will clock in at the region of 600-700pts.

We all know, kill the raider ASAP, and the expensive, combat focussed unit is foot-slogging slowly across the board, and vulnerable to weight of fire or people simply out-manoeuvring it. Not complex.

**Carlosophy** · 29-03-2012, 17:40

For the record, Deathstar units have been around forever.

My dad used to run a squad of 10 Tzeentch Chosen Sorcerers each with Bolt of Change, Daemonic Aura, Armour, Resilience and Power Weapons, 10 Assault 1 AP2 Krak Missiles per turn was no laughing matter. OK, so they cost 750pts but still.

**Captain Collius** · 29-03-2012, 18:11

Agreed any deathstar can be killed with a combo of 2 things 1 kill their movement i.e. land raider etc 2. throw a lot of dice at them.
only Necrons really have any answer for this in reanimation rolls but if you takthe squad down they aren't getting back up

**blurrymadness** · 29-03-2012, 18:31

Originally Posted by FraustyTheSnowman

Yeah, but it was that one really Really REALLY whiney bugger that pulled the triger and stole everyone elses frag...

What a KSing punk! (killstealing)

Originally Posted by Clarkson

does this look like BOLS? nope not to me either...
DeathStars work because they are difficult to kill.. so you either ignore them and get owned or face them and the chaff left over hurts you badly...
BUT it takes tactics to make it work.. usually they roll in w/e is best for them (usually a LR or DS) then they can cross the board quickly.
and usually the games you are playing are small, ie 1500, or huge, 3k+, where the deathstar can either bully smaller armies or be supported by, as you stated, platforms of shooty killy death, or worst case scenario... can fit 2-3 deathstars in a list..
its risky to run them, as they are not unbreakable, and usually an army falls apart very quickly when they do..
I have a friend in 1750 dedicated at least 1k in a deathstar.. that he fully expects to die... so his less annoying stuff is protected or do what they are there for... objective sitting.. while the big unit is killed (basically the meat shield)

So a good player... kills the unit sitting on the objectives? That's weird because I normally try to kill all of the none troop units first because then the troops don't stand a chance.

If we're being real here for a second, there aren't many deathstars that a standard squad of TH/SS termies and support don't counter just fine. Similarly, there aren't many deathstars that don't involve terminators. If your meta has deathstars you start running vindicators and some counter-assault unit that beats them; If you lack said counter assault unit you run more large templates that ignore armor and/or pile on the saves.

**Str10_hurts** · 29-03-2012, 19:15

Originally Posted by blurrymadness

What a KSing punk! (killstealing)
If we're being real here for a second, there aren't many deathstars that a standard squad of TH/SS termies and support don't counter just fine. Similarly, there aren't many deathstars that don't involve terminators. If your meta has deathstars you start running vindicators and some counter-assault unit that beats them; If you lack said counter assault unit you run more large templates that ignore armor and/or pile on the saves.

This. 5 TH/SS terminators are only ~200 pts. about the cost of a MEQ troop choice. This is pretty cheap, I do not include a landraider in the deathstar unit as it is an nasty gun platform, and in some cases worth its points just taking the landraider.

The 600-700 point (paladin) deathstars are just to easily forced in a bad position by using speed, or bubble wrapping. IG is an example army that if played well would laugh at deathstars, losing one unit of infantry/chimera a turn to this unit (about worst case scenario) is still acceptable, that and the overdosis melta/plasma/instantkill templates.

Versus other MEQ armies they do a little better.

**Bunnahabhain** · 29-03-2012, 22:13

Deathstars need targets worth killing, and some armies are great at not giving them those- Guard and DE in particular

Originally Posted by blurrymadness

So a good player... kills the unit sitting on the objectives? That's weird because I normally try to kill all of the none troop units first because then the troops don't stand a chance.

Surely this depends on the troops units in question. IG vets, Grey hunters, or DE warriors, with << insert appropriate weapons and transports here>> are all perfectly capable of turning up in such number so as to be a major, and rather threatening, part of the enemy force...

**Thesmash** · 30-03-2012, 05:03

Alright I will give you that death stars can be stopped but I think that you guys are underestimating how easy it is to do this. Feeding the death star inexpressive units is not as effective as many of you have claimed. Unless you are an extremely mobile the bulk of your army is going to be in one area and once the star gets in this area it will be hard to stop it. None of you responded to my point of splitting off independent characters to attack different areas of the opponents armies and I know some of you are racing to your keyboards to say that this makes the character vulnerable, but it also forces your opponent to split fire. Also remember the primary objective of the death star is to only occupy your opponents army long enough for the rest of your to do what it needs to do. Death stars can work if used correctly.

**Nameless1** · 30-03-2012, 05:23

My 'Death Star' equivalent is a LR Crusader full of vanguard vets. If I start with it on the table, it gets killed by the weapons the other player brought to kill big scary stuff in the first turn. I've found it to be incredibly effective to keep it in reserve and bring it on later. Typically by that point the enemy is too focused on dealing with what is on the table to focus all their fire on it, and it becomes something the enemy HAS to deal with mid to late game. I play defensively until it comes on, then switch over to offense.

**Str10_hurts** · 30-03-2012, 06:27