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Thread: My 8th Ed Bretonnian Book

  1. #1
    Veteran Sergeant ZT Strike's Avatar
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    My 8th Ed Bretonnian Book

    Posted on Discussion. Told to post here.
    http://www.roundtable-bretonnia.org/...onnia_File.zip - Version I

    http://www.roundtable-bretonnia.org/...0b8381af30.zip - Version II
    Thoughts? Ideas? Good and Bad remarks?
    Last edited by ZT Strike; 11-04-2012 at 07:40.
    -ZT Strike
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    Corsair of Karond Kar - Druchii


  2. #2
    Veteran Sergeant ZT Strike's Avatar
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    Re: My 8th Ed Bretonnian Book

    And no replies yet... Sad Face
    -ZT Strike
    Sea Guard of Eataine - Asur
    Corsair of Karond Kar - Druchii


  3. #3
    Chaplain M4cR1II3n's Avatar
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    Re: My 8th Ed Bretonnian Book

    As someone who is also currently working on an 8th ed update for Bretonnia, I feel that you have really done a big misstep here. Not to sound too harsh, but frankly, this list has barely anything to do with Bretonnia, and really needs to go back to the drawing board.

    First off, the lance formation. The way you have rewritten it just makes it sound more confusing than the current wording without adding anything. The Emerge rule is a bit interesting, but potentially game breaking. Won't rule that one out yet completely though.

    The blessing on the other hand, is really OP. 1+ A always or a 5+ ward save regardless of the strength of the attack? Also find the "blessing of peace" to be named weirdly. The knights are really going to ask for peace right before charging into battle? The way the blessing is resolved if both armies are Bretonnian is just unfair. So just because one guy rolls worse on a single dice, the opponents army gets 33% more resilient or gets twice the number of attacks while he gets nothing?

    The Vows do the same thing as earlier, but with weirder wording. For instance, the only units that have LD6 or lower are models with the peasant's duty!

    Rally the peasants is also rather broken. +1 Ld to knights because you have a lot of peasants makes no sense as most knights despise peasants, and the peasants being stubborn is just ridiculous. I get steadfast, but real stubborn? Not a chance.

    I'll sort the units out one by one:

    Lord/Paladin - why does he have WS7/6? He is still a human, WS7+ are reserved for Dwarfs, Elves and the like. Also, why does he have the Grail Vow as default with no option to change it?

    Prophetess - 280 pts for MR (2)?! She hasn't gotten any better since 6th ed, but costs 90 pts more? Why?

    Damsel - is fine, and unchanged.

    Pikemen - why rename the men-at-arms to pikemen, when they don't even have pikes? Not to mention that pikes have nothing to do in a Bretonnian army.

    Sunday Shooters - the name sounds like they are cowboys with a bad hangover. Why remove the longbows from them?

    Militia Cavalry - makes no sense. Militia would never be given their own horses, and the only peasants who would get mounts are the elites. That is, Squires, Yeomen, Hobilars, or Mounted Sergeants. Not normal militia soldiers. Why would they even get the option to take barding?

    Knights of Bretonnia - no knight's errant? Apart from being completely generic, they are okay rules-wise.

    Order Knights - way too overpriced. Compare these guys to Greatswords, they have no stubborn, no plate armour, and no great weapons, but cost 2 pts more?

    Longbows - these guys are the opposite of what Bretonnia is about. Their code strictly forbids the use of missile weapons, but these knight specialize in it? Makes about as much sense as Chaos Warriors with handguns.

    Guardian Knights - no questing knights? These guys have the exact same stats as them, but with lances instead of great weapons, which makes them about as interesting as Empire Inner Circle Knights. Which isn't much I'm afraid. Why are they even called Guardian Knights to begin with? you'd think they'd be stubborn or something like that if that's the case.

    Pegasus Knights - WS increase and a whopping 13 pts cheaper? Seems a bit too much...

    Lion knights - have absolutely nothing to do with Bretonnia, there aren't even any lions there! If you want Lion cavalry, I'd suggest playing a High Elf Chrace army.

    Grail Knights - comes of as weird seeing as there are no Questing knights. How do they become Grail Knights to begin with if that's the case? Also, WS6 and T4 but only 1A? What gives?

    Fey Fanatics - where's the Grail Reliquae? Giving them both frenzy and unbreakable makes them just come off as Flagellant copies. And they are really overpriced at 12 pts each. Also, why the name change to begin with? These aren't Fey, and they don't worship the Fey, they worship Grail Knights!

    Trebuchet - should be Strength 4, not 3.

    King Louen - has less bling than a common Lord. 220 pts for the the King of Bretonnia? Why remove his magic items? And making the whole army stubborn is seriously broken.


    I probably come off as a cruel bastard here, but the fact is that this list doesn't really have any merit in its current state. Nearly every unit has something seriously wrong with it, the unit names have changed for no apparent reason, and there is hardly any mention of the Lady, the Grail and the Chivalric Code. If I were you I would really rethink the whole thing and base it off the real army list a lot more. It's supposed to be an update, not a whole new army after all.
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  4. #4

    Re: My 8th Ed Bretonnian Book

    ^ This post. Macrillen sums up all my veiwpoints conserning your list.
    Warhammer Armies: Norse Tribes (Norse Army Book)
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4O...it?usp=sharing

  5. #5
    Veteran Sergeant ZT Strike's Avatar
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    Re: My 8th Ed Bretonnian Book

    Thanks for the input. Very valuable actually. I am already working on version II as this one was only the blue print. If you noticed a lot of the flavor texts were missing. Some things were mis-types while others were mainly R&D failures. Hopefully I can make you far happier with Version II.
    -ZT Strike
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  6. #6
    Chapter Master Son of Sanguinius's Avatar
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    Re: My 8th Ed Bretonnian Book

    I also agree with Macrillen, but I'd also like to point out that the book is a little boring. There's nothing with real gravitas that made me open my eyes with pleasant or curious surprise. Even if you fix what Macrillen recommends, it's still going to be bland.

    The new army book trend is including more monsters, strange war machines, and limiting magic items to a small but potent list. I'd recommend trying some of those and seeing if you can keep some synergy and keep the focus on the lance formation.
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  7. #7
    Veteran Sergeant ZT Strike's Avatar
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    Re: My 8th Ed Bretonnian Book

    Version 2 now available:
    http://www.roundtable-bretonnia.org/...0b8381af30.zip

    Foreseeable Problems:
    Some point cost issues, need some more R&D
    Some flavor issues. IT HAS CHANGED!

    Changes: Pictures!
    Point changes
    unit edits
    Massive amount of flavor added.

    Let me know what you think.
    -ZT Strike
    Sea Guard of Eataine - Asur
    Corsair of Karond Kar - Druchii


  8. #8

    Re: My 8th Ed Bretonnian Book

    Sorry ZT, but I still don't like what you are doing to Bretonnia. I always appreciate the effort people put into project like this, but this is too complicated, too far from the current background and has less flavor the the current one.

    The one thing I apposed the most was the penerating ranks rule. Do you realize that this is, for the most part, a very bad deal for the bretonnian player to pop out behind an enemy unit they need to tie down? If you want the Lance formation to have a powerful charge which image them piercing the enemy unit, how about this: Impact hits (1) + 1 strength per rank behind the first. For each wounding hit, penetrate ranks like a bolt thrower. - simple and effective.

    I do admire though that you kept to your initial ideas in the second version, but I fear you will get a lot of grief, specially from old Bretonnian players.
    Warhammer Armies: Norse Tribes (Norse Army Book)
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4O...it?usp=sharing

  9. #9

    Re: My 8th Ed Bretonnian Book

    mmm...glossy pictures are always nice. Honestly there is not much wrong with this. I think with the penetrating ranks rule you should use something similar to the VC Hexwraiths' ability.

    I would love a return to the ruthless, tyrannical pre-French Revolution set-up that the early incarnations had.

    By the way, should the Champion have T4 and the Paladin have S4, T4?

  10. #10
    Veteran Sergeant ZT Strike's Avatar
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    Re: My 8th Ed Bretonnian Book

    The hexwraiths were what gave me the idea. Lance Penetration was my attempt at a Bretonnia version at this. It makes since to me that a Bretonnian lance charge would go through some units. Reason for it is because Bretonnia can't hit and run, this allows them do possibly do that. That or attempt a version of blitzkrieg.

    I made the heroes and lords descend in stats so that it wouldn't be just another lord. So I changed up the stats to reflect that these knights, which doing different things, would be at different skill levels.
    -ZT Strike
    Sea Guard of Eataine - Asur
    Corsair of Karond Kar - Druchii


  11. #11

    Re: My 8th Ed Bretonnian Book

    I was wondering if you should exclude the battle standard cost (25pts) from the Paladin so as not to penalise multiple Paladin builds?

    Also are we going to see a Bretonnian Chariot/ Altar unit? What about Hippogriff Knights?
    Last edited by xavos; 13-04-2012 at 15:54.

  12. #12
    Veteran Sergeant ZT Strike's Avatar
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    Re: My 8th Ed Bretonnian Book

    There shouldn't be a cost to the BSB. Bretonnian Chariot, maybe... Not something I easily see but very possible. Hippogriff Knights don't make any since to me, and they would be too expensive.
    -ZT Strike
    Sea Guard of Eataine - Asur
    Corsair of Karond Kar - Druchii


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