Anything of interest to report - any retcons, changes etc.
Anything of interest to report - any retcons, changes etc.
I'm sure some clever engineer or wizard has ripped off Chaos' patented Infinite Horde of Marauders cloning facilities by now. Either that or the reports of the invasions' scale are exaggerated such as; Grom didn't really attack Middenhiem, rather he attacked a village he thought was Middenheim and stole the roof of the local outhouse mistaking it for a temple, since Greenskins have a propensity for using dung to craft their idols.Originally Posted by Craze_b0i
There are a few bits and pieces; most of it not particularly imaginative, just a couple of new battles added. Most of the background is a reprint of earlier stuff. The Stirlanders attacking the Nordlanders in a misunderstanding has been mentioned. There's also mention of the Colleges falling out in a spectacular battle in 2415 resulting in the deaths of six of the Patriarchs.
Karl Franz was an infant in 2470 (previously, I believe, he was 25 on his accession in 2502) when he and his father were ambushed in the forest by Ghorgons and saved by Wood Elves. Mentally I'm shifting that date to 2480. The Skaven invasion of Nuln is still listed as 2499 even though Karl Franz wasn't Emperor at that point. The Emperor killed by Gorbad is named as Sigismund IV (previously Sigismund V). Minor stuff, and I suspect the discrepancies are due to carelessness.
Most of the stuff on the special characters is also reprinted with a few added bits and pieces. Markus Wulfhart is introduced, typical Warhammer "gritty" hero; turned down a knighthood because it would interfere with his work, etc.. Karl Franz is now "a military genius" and "said to be the greatest statesman the Old World has ever seen", obviously, just as Deathclaw is "reputed to be the mightiest Imperial griffon in history". There's more "bigging up" of KF - the section on his reign gets half as much page space as the rest of Imperial history put together. The timeline stops in 2521 in anticipation of the Storm of Chaos. Volkmar has yet to set out to attack Archaon, and there is no mention of Valten. Balthasar Gelt is already the Supreme Patriarch by 2516 so presumably is due to recontest this in 2521 (previously I think it was assumed he had defeated Thyrus Gormann in 2521). Brass Keep is already held by Chaos and has been since the time of Magnus.
There's not much on the Hurricanum or the Luminark beyond what's on the website. No explanation whatsoever is given for two-headed griffons, although it is an upgrade option. Deathclaw has his own profile. Demigryphs get a page in the "bestiary", which is much as you'd expect.
That's pretty much it.
What? Chaos managed to hold the Brass Keep for the ~200 years between Magnus and Franz? Not to mention how did they take it? The incursion was stopped at Kislev in Magnus' time. Did they just teleport in troops with all the supplies needed for a 200 year siege while no one was looking?
Brass keep sounds pretty chaosey to me. Didn't they simply build it?
Empire fortresses and castles are undermanned constantly though, and a fortress in an isolated location, high up in the mountains and far away from any populationcentres, doesn't seem a priority for putting a garrison.
The empire can barely (actually... it can't) keep the woodlands free of beastmen, so for chaos to hold a fortress high up in the middle of the mountains... that doesn't seem all that odd to me.
Last edited by The bearded one; 15-04-2012 at 04:21.
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is there any fluff about marienburg?
Nothing new on Marienburg, just the same stuff reprinted from the last couple of editions.
Regarding Brass Keep, during the SoC campaign I'm pretty sure it was an Empire fort which was later captured and turned into Archaon's base of operations (this is also the version given in Sigmar's Heirs), but given that in the new army book the SoC hasn't happened yet it appears this has been changed.
In an attempt to drag this thread back on-topic, it may interest fans of Tamurkhan to know that it is now official canon, as it says expressly that at some point (I will have to check the exact date on the timeline) that the empire "sees off the hordes of the maggot-king Tamurkhan".
This makes me very, very happy.
Who isn't a fan of Tamurkhan? People who haven't read it, thats who. I actually felt ill when I read the Maggot King's unit entry...didn't expect his title to be so...literal.
It does indeed seem like the studio have recently aquired a shiny new retcon-hammer +1 and are itching to hit stuff with it. I figure the SOC will be gone by 9th edition - putting it in the 'future' according to 8th army books is just the first step. I read recently that the current studio crowd regard the SOC as a bit of a fluff disaster (can't remember where I read it) on a par with the Hindenberg (Oh! the humanity!) so I'm not surprised to see them heading in this direction, frankly.
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Many of the main problems with SoC aren't background ones, which is one of the reasons I'm annoyed that it's being retconned. It doesn't help that, given that the default setting for WFRP2 was in the aftermath of SoC, most of the best and most detailed modern background is set in a post-SoC world.
That said, the ending of SoC was awful. I get the impression that the campaign was written backwards from a marketing perspective, and Gav Thorpe left to try to knit together the loose ends without changing anything serious.
The real problem, though, is that GW never fully accepted the event as canonical and have been fudging things for eight years trying to work round it. If they'd just acknowledged it and carried on it wouldn't have become the bugbear it is: after all, nothing serious changed as a result of it. It seems to have turned into the modern equivalent of Empire in Flames, which is quite some achievement really.
I noticed the absence of the Storm of Chaos in the time line, in the background stories - then I looked up Volkmar and Huss - and lo and behold they were not involved! So then I looked up Grimgor Ironhide - and now he's just fought Crom the Destroyer - but no mention of Archeaon!
So I read about Manfred in the new VC book - and he fought a generic Chaos incurison into the Empire - no mention of Archeaon.
I then raided the main rule book and read the stories in there - and again the Storm of chaos had been removed from timelines and stories!!!!
So the Storm of Chaos has been neatly excised from the cannon fluff - but interesting to see how the final paragraph in the Empire stories mention a growing menance from the North - and since it's rumoured that Warriors of Chaos will get a redo soon it's very interesting indeed!!!
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I said all that on page 1.
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Unfortunately, not all the background stories. In the Swords of the Emperor novels, for instance (actually some of the best WHF novels of recent years) the events of the SoC are specifically referenced (and become a plot point in the finale) - and they were only released last year or thereabouts.
It was an Imperial fortress with heavy brass gates (hence the name) in the original background.
It's a quite weird situation to have a fortress of Chaos in the middle of the Empire. Why would the Empire tolerate that?
It's something else entirely from scattered beastmen and greenskins deep in the woods.
The problem for me is that GW basically asks people to just photocopy the army list.
I'll admit that the basic fluff is difficult to change, but the book really lack flavor stories.
Photocopy the army list and bestiary, tear the corresponding pages out of the 7th, 6th or 5th edition book and staple in the photocopied pages. Voila, 8th edition army book.
Personally I think they should just release 30 pages with bestiary/army list and then enclose a novel about the race instead. Like "Red Duke" for Vampire Counts etc. But copy/paste is such an easy way to steal people's money..
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It's not that straightforward though. The armybook has to cater for those who are new to the hobby, hence you can't do away with the mainstream background entirely. What it needs is a compromise whereby half the background section covers the main narrative of that race and half is made up of short stories that can change from one edition to the next.
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Actually, I like the fact that the core background for each faction is repeated in every new version of the book.
This way people who play over various editions get a better grasp of their army's background even if they don't particularly care for it
I agree, but at the same time, I do miss the batreps and the short stories you could find in the 4th/5th ed books.Actually, I like the fact that the core background for each faction is repeated in every new version of the book.
This way people who play over various editions get a better grasp of their army's background even if they don't particularly care for it
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Considering how expensive the modern army books are, it'd be nice if they had a bit more content along the lines of the 4th/5th ed books, aye. The Empire book in particular looks and seems thin.
I guess it varies from book to book.
Backgroundwise I have very little complaints about the new Orcs & Goblins book for 8th edition.
The new stuff was decent and the old stuff wasn't too badly reconstructed.
Vampire Counts on the other hand seems to have suffered a lot backgroundwise. Some unit descriptions where visibly inflated to fill the page and the significant parts of the existing background had been ret-conned or altered.
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