Any new/interesting fluff in the new Empire Army book

[Craze_b0i]

Considering how expensive the modern army books are, it'd be nice if they had a bit more content along the lines of the 4th/5th ed books, aye. The Empire book in particular looks and seems thin.

Hmmm just checked the number of pages, it is actually 16 less than OnG.

[Athelassan]

Which is ridiculous, really. There have been hundreds if not thousands of pages of Empire background produced over the years for the wargame and RPGs, not even counting the novels. Of all the books, that's the one that I'd have thought should be most bursting at the seams. It's actually shorter than the 7th ed Dark Elves book. I know that hardback is more expensive, but it doesn't help when you're already feeling a bit ripped off to know that you paid £5 more for a hardback cover and less content.

[Craze_b0i]

Well finally got my Empire Book from my LGS. I don't unfortunately have the 7th edition book so can't pinpoint all the background changes. However I did note a few points not yet discussed above.

First there is no mention of Sigmar's war with Nagash which for me is a shocking ommission. The impression given is that he beat up the orcs, founded the empire and then ruled unchallenged for 50 years.

Second the forest goblins and araknaroks have been teleported from The Drakwald to The Great Forest. (Presumably this means The Black Pit has been teleported as well.) The only other explanation to 'teleportation' is that the forest boundaries have now been shifted, that The Great Forest now includes most of Middenland and Drakwald is now much smaller. From the text its hard to tell. I also noticed that the 'Battle for Drakwald' (OnG: 2518) is omitted from the fluff, instead we now get Karl Franz fighting an entirely seperate bunch of forest goblins down in the Reikwald.

That aside the background in the book isn't too bad. Probably interesting, enjoyable, unconvincing and overblown all in equal measures.

[Athelassan]

I think the forest markings are just a mistake/artistic licence. Although doubtless the next guy to write some Empire background won't bother to double-check and will go off the legends in the 8th ed army book: that seems to be the usual way unless you have a very conscientious writer.

There are a couple of other omissions and changes as well from the timeline and background sections. The state of war in the early Empire is played up massively over earlier versions. Previously, after Sigmar's victories at the River Reik and Black Fire Pass the Empire was fairly prosperous and successful for the best part of a millennium, allowing for a spectacular fall at the time of the Black Plague. Now it's made to seem as though nothing much has ever changed. Sigismund II's conquest of Jutonsryk has been completely omitted - this had previously made it into just about every Empire timeline since The Enemy Within, including the one in the 8th edition rulebook. In fact some of the details from the rulebook are omitted here. Mandred's final victory over the Skaven is said to have been at the Howling Hills in 1124 rather than at Averheim in 1128.

Incidentally, I picked up Tamurkhan: Throne of Chaos at the weekend. It was much more expensive than the Empire army book and feels like much less of a rip-off.

[Craze_b0i]

I think the forest markings are just a mistake/artistic licence.

Yes Drakwald is mislabelled on the map, but I wasn't actually referring to that. I was referring to the background text on 'forests'. At several points in OnG book it suggests the biggest hub of forest goblin territory, including The Black Pit, is in Drakwald. However the Empire author places them in The Great Forest.

On a seperate note the reason for first Battle of Blackfire Pass seems to have changed. I always assumed the orcs were marching through Blackfire Pass to reconquer the fledgling Empire but Cruddace says they were on their way to attack the 'dwarf realm' and it was the dwarf high king who asks Sigmar for help not vice verca. To me that seemed odd given that Blackfire Pass doesn't contain any dwarf hold of significant note, also about half the dwarf realm (including the capitol) is to the south of the pass anyway.

[Arnizipal]

On a seperate note the reason for first Battle of Blackfire Pass seems to have changed. I always assumed the orcs were marching through Blackfire Pass to reconquer the fledgling Empire but Cruddace says they were on their way to attack the 'dwarf realm' and it was the dwarf high king who asks Sigmar for help not vice verca. To me that seemed odd given that Blackfire Pass doesn't contain any dwarf hold of significant note, also about half the dwarf realm (including the capitol) is to the south of the pass anyway.

The Battle of Black Fire Pass was a direct consequence of Sigmar being so succesful in driving out the greenskins from the lands that would become the Empire. Survivors of the purge fled across the mountains and a huge WAAAGH! formed because of the rumours the survivors spread.
The Dwarfs had nothing to do with it really...

[Athelassan]

Ah, I see what you mean. I imagine that the segregation is partly to keep the character of each of the forest areas relatively distinctive - beastmen in the Drakwald; Wood Elves in the Laurelorn; greenskins in the Great Forest; bandits, mutants, bandits and forest goblins in the Reikwald; Undead in the Dead Wood; and god-knows-what in the Forest of Shadows. The boundaries of each of the forests is probably pretty ill-defined anyway. As far as Middenland is concerned, the Drakwald ("their" forest) probably extends halfway across what a Talabeclander would call the Great Forest, and vice versa.

[Craze_b0i]

Well I always took the boundary as the river Tabac, but admittedly the sources are somewhat vague.

Personally however I think the most likely explanation for this anomaly is that the Empire author never read the OnG book so was unaware of the pre-existing fluff.

The Battle of Black Fire Pass was a direct consequence of Sigmar being so succesful in driving out the greenskins from the lands that would become the Empire. Survivors of the purge fled across the mountains and a huge WAAAGH! formed because of the rumours the survivors spread.
The Dwarfs had nothing to do with it really...

Well that was the established fluff. But sadly John Cruddace has now changed it.

[The bearded one]

Which is ridiculous, really. There have been hundreds if not thousands of pages of Empire background produced over the years for the wargame and RPGs, not even counting the novels. Of all the books, that's the one that I'd have thought should be most bursting at the seams. It's actually shorter than the 7th ed Dark Elves book.

I thought the 7th edition dark elf book had quite a lot of history in it. Then again I don't have the 6th edition dark elf book, but pages 5 to 41 are all fluff and history, and it was quite a lot more extensive than other books. My precious dwarf armybook has like 10 pages for the entire history, one of which is a fullpage piece of artwork, and 4 on which less than half of the page is devoted to text, and the rest to large art.

[Fear Ghoul]

First there is no mention of Sigmar's war with Nagash which for me is a shocking ommission. The impression given is that he beat up the orcs, founded the empire and then ruled unchallenged for 50 years.

The previous army book didn't mention it either.

There are a couple of other omissions and changes as well from the timeline and background sections. The state of war in the early Empire is played up massively over earlier versions. Previously, after Sigmar's victories at the River Reik and Black Fire Pass the Empire was fairly prosperous and successful for the best part of a millennium, allowing for a spectacular fall at the time of the Black Plague. Now it's made to seem as though nothing much has ever changed. Sigismund II's conquest of Jutonsryk has been completely omitted - this had previously made it into just about every Empire timeline since The Enemy Within, including the one in the 8th edition rulebook. In fact some of the details from the rulebook are omitted here. Mandred's final victory over the Skaven is said to have been at the Howling Hills in 1124 rather than at Averheim in 1128.

Mandred's final victory over the Skaven is the same in the 7th edition book as the 8th. As for the state of the Empire, since the actual text includes mention of Skaven, I took it to mean that it was a generalization over the Empire's history rather than a year by year affair.

On a seperate note the reason for first Battle of Blackfire Pass seems to have changed. I always assumed the orcs were marching through Blackfire Pass to reconquer the fledgling Empire but Cruddace says they were on their way to attack the 'dwarf realm' and it was the dwarf high king who asks Sigmar for help not vice verca. To me that seemed odd given that Blackfire Pass doesn't contain any dwarf hold of significant note, also about half the dwarf realm (including the capitol) is to the south of the pass anyway.

Also the same as the 7th edition book.

[Craze_b0i]

Also the same as the 7th edition book.

Interesting. Maybe then the fan-base needs to be more active in complaining to the studio, given that GW editors don't seem capable of identifying and correcting such non-sensical fluff-statements by themselves.

Jervis Johnson has an address in white-Dwarf, or at least he used to.