Ogres Over Powered? (Am I missing something?)

[BirchbarktheAncient]

My rats would love a crack at em'. Die! Die! Big-things!

[BirchbarktheAncient]

Ogres are NOT that hard of an army to beat. They have indeed improved their staying power, but I fight them and beat them all the time with my rats.

[BEARO]

The sacrifical dagger really isnt that great tbh, yeah its nice to have it but its far from op. Then again i use it so that my level 4 can do single die castings technically

Absurd statement.

[Dreadlordpaul]

Absurd statement.

You consider something which forces me to kill my own models op

[fubukii]

For power dice! Ill trade a 6 point spearman for a free power dice anyday, in fact i used to all the time before i sold my dark elves! haha

[TsukeFox]

The sacrifical dagger really isnt that great tbh, yeah its nice to have it but its far from op. Then again i use it so that my level 4 can do single die castings technically

*facepalm*

[bluemage]

You consider something which forces me to kill my own models op

If you don't think its OP, why don't you try playing your games without it for a while?

[Dreadlordpaul]

If you don't think its OP, why don't you try playing your games without it for a while?

I have done my level 4 either takes that or tome of furion

[Mr Ogre]

If you don't think its OP, why don't you try playing your games without it for a while?

Indeed. Commiting to combat tends to get models killed as well, on both sides.

Consider this. You use on pool die, and job 18 points worth of models for 3 more. You then cast a nasty spell. How many of the opponents models did you just kill? What was their points value? How many spells a game can you cast with that over a game?

Consider those turns you roll poorly for winds of Magic. Say you wind up with a two power dice. Sacrifical Dagger allows you to take full advantage of your opponents pathetic dispel pool, and belt out some massive spells he can do precisely nothing about! And all for a few measly points. And those troops your sacrificing? Dark Elf Spearmen are a BARGAIN as they are, so it's not as if you're forced to waste point to power up the stabby thing. Take that, and you need never, ever worry about a poor magic phase. Heck, take that, roll a double one, and use the sacrificial dagger to cast Power of Darkness First, and hump your opponent like there's no tomorrow. That IS powerful. Hellheart I would say pales in comparisson. It's useful some of the time, useless other. Sacrifical Dagger is worth it's weight in gold!

[Djekar]

Sacrificial Dagger makes a magic dependent army like Dark Elves have very reliable magic phases. Rolled double 1's on winds? Good thing that with Power of Darkness and the Dagger you can still have a moderately robust phase while your opponent sits on 1 dispel dice. I love it, but it is pretty filthy sometimes.

[Montegue]

Sacrificing an elf costs no points if the unit he's in survives the game. And, if you're popping off a ton of spells in your magic phase as a result, then it's a model well spent. No cost, and victory.

[Minsc]

Rolling 1-1 on winds of magic:

Sacrificing a 6pts spearmen to reliably get power of darkness trough? Ok.
Sacrificing a 6pts spearmen, then adding the 4 PD you gained from PoD in order to cast Purple Sun / Dwellers / Final Transmutation on that hordeunit, killing off several hundred points worth of models? No, not cheezy at all.
Clearly there's a balance between sacrificing 12 pts worth of your own model's, in order to kill 300 pts worth of model's for the enemy.

[Dreadlordpaul]

I actually usually take either fire metal or dark magic on my level 4

[Cambion Daystar]

I actually usually take either fire metal or dark magic on my level 4

Now you are just making excuses to justify taking a clearly OP item

[Dreadlordpaul]

Now you are just making excuses to justify taking a clearly OP item

You do realise DE rely on the magic phase right? I need something to make my magic phase more reliable and even if it goes up in points in the next book i will still take it same for the pendant

[tmarichards]

Using Dark magic actually demonstrates exactly how stupid the Sacrificial Dagger is, as it lets you use just one "natural" power dice for 4 of the spells (2 for Black Horror and Soul Stealer) with the option of stabbing for a second if you don't reach the casting value.

Basically, the Dagger removes all the skill out of the Dark Elf magic phase (and with the unlimited dice cap there was precious little to begin with). You no longer have to carefully prioritise how many dice you use and for which spells, as if you fail to reach the casting value it doesn't end your magic phase for that caster as you can instead just add another power dice.

To be honest, there is simply no place in the game for the Sacrificial Dagger- and this is coming from a Dark Elf player who has used it in around 400 games this edition. It needs to be either removed outright, or changed to at least 75pts.

[Maoriboy007]

You do realise DE rely on the magic phase right? I need something to make my magic phase more reliable and even if it goes up in points in the next book i will still take it same for the pendant

Try telling that to Tomb King and VC players with a straight face. Hilarious, the dagger is straight up broken , but its worst feature is the get out of jail card it provides for the loss of concentration.

[Maoriboy007]

As car as Ogres go , Ironblasters are bad because the rules for cannons are so faulty in 8th, making them mobile and able to kick @$$ as well takes away the few balancing weakness they might otherwise have.
The hellheart is pretty bad because of its potential to completely negate amagic phase and destroy several wizards in one go, and short of your opponant rolling low on the distance , there is no real defence against it. Mournfangs kind of make sense to me , its the synergy with the ice banner that really tips them to brokeness. Although when I compare them to Necroknights they are way better priced.

[N1AK]

I can't believe their is anyone still defending the dagger as not being broken. If it could only be used for once per turn AND it had to be declared before casting it would still be a 1+ item.

As to the Hellheart, I think it is reasonable. It scares me when I'm playing my VC but that's a perfect match up for it. Most comps that allow it but limit other magic defence (because the Hellheart usually takes a phase off your opponent) are doing it right imo.

[oldWitheredCorpse]

Try telling that to Tomb King and VC players with a straight face. Hilarious, the dagger is straight up broken , but its worst feature is the get out of jail card it provides for the loss of concentration.

Still off topic: Yes, and compare the dagger to the Wand of Jet, that costs 35 pts to do the same thing ONCE during a game. A few TK players that rely on 2 PD spells still swear by it.