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Thread: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

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    Librarian Forse's Avatar
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    Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    Hello. I was comparing different fantasy settings, mainly the Warcraft world and the Warhammer world. One thing that makes the Warcraft world stand out compared to other fantasy settings is how the "monstrous" races are civilized. In WoW, these races show no signs of lower intelligence (having less technically advanced architecture is not a sign), and they have other quite diverse traits like honor, nobility, and ingenuity. They do show a more savage side sometimes, though.

    In Warhammer it is quite different, with Ogres being an exception. I quite like the Ogres in Warhammer, being opportunistic and open to deal with all races.

    What do you prefer, and why? And do you know of any other settings with more or less intelligent and civilized monstrous races?

  2. #2
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    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    I like the fantasy world as it is, it is very chaotic and constant war. Wow universe is one of frictitious peace, where orcs have ambassadors etc.

    Id like to see a new race that combines the 2 faces of a war like race but one that can be diplomatic when need be, cathay and even the norse (not kurgan or hung) who are known for trading with the empire chaotic treasures traded off the tribes of the norse, but will go to war the day after. So the wfb is not as clear cut and often the races are very civilised but in there own unique way, and not in the way we would desrcibe civilised.

    Wfb we have to delve deeper into the race to see there own unique "civilisation", and that makes the world more 3D as opposed to a brief over view of the game.

  3. #3

    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    I love WH goblins. never cared too much for WoW goblins. They have their charms with their interest in explosions and all but that can't beat sneaky stabbing, coniving, slit your throat at night goblins with thier 'innocent' cruelty. i like that alot of WH races have natural tendancies rather than just being another diffrent colored human.

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    Chapter Master Urgat's Avatar
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    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    I like them both. I love my trolls in Warhammer, but I like the Warcraft variety as well, for instance.

  5. #5

    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    Various worlds within Dungeons and Dragon had civilised monsterous races. Then of course you have the trolls in Discworld.

    I like what they did with the orcs in warcraft, having a race that evolves its position re: good/evil gave them something different to orcs from other settings. I thought the storyline is WCIII was very well done, loved the cut-scene where Thrall and Grom finally face-off against Meneroth (sp?) in the canyon.
    Gorfang Rotgut - RIP.

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    Chapter Master Urgat's Avatar
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    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    I'm not playing wow anymore, but the setting on the Horde has evolved quite a bit lately it seems: Thrall resigned from leadership of the Horde, now it's Hellscream's son (Garrosh) who leads it, and he's as bloodthirsty and hateful as the original warlords in WC1 & 2, so in the next addon, it's going to be back to a full-blown war between the Alliance and the Horde like in the good old days (it was building up since Wrath of the Liche King). I like how Warcraft's plot advances like that, though I do regret they're killing all the bad guys one after the other: it's pretty much removing all material for a possible Warcraft 4. Sure, they could be creating yet another menace, but after the megadragon, the demons from outerspace (always found that a bit odd ), the ancient gods and the lord of undeath, there's not much left to impress... I suspect the Warcraft franchise will end with WoW.

  7. #7

    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    I never graduated to WOW the thought of pay-per-play and the amount of time I would have to invest personally was too much.

    After I got tired of WCIII I went back to WCII again. I always wished they would release an update for WCII where you could use Night Elves and Scourge but of course by that time the game was so old that Blizzard had lost interest in supporting it any further.
    Gorfang Rotgut - RIP.

  8. #8

    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    Quote Originally Posted by Urgat View Post
    I'm not playing wow anymore, but the setting on the Horde has evolved quite a bit lately it seems: Thrall resigned from leadership of the Horde, now it's Hellscream's son (Garrosh) who leads it, and he's as bloodthirsty and hateful as the original warlords in WC1 & 2, so in the next addon, it's going to be back to a full-blown war between the Alliance and the Horde like in the good old days (it was building up since Wrath of the Liche King). I like how Warcraft's plot advances like that, though I do regret they're killing all the bad guys one after the other: it's pretty much removing all material for a possible Warcraft 4. Sure, they could be creating yet another menace, but after the megadragon, the demons from outerspace (always found that a bit odd ), the ancient gods and the lord of undeath, there's not much left to impress... I suspect the Warcraft franchise will end with WoW.
    Yeah, i don't think there's going to be a WC4. When I learned they were advancing the story through WoW I knew the RTS WC was dead.

    I like when each faction or species are more complex. Like in WH I like that the northerners worship Chaos because it's evident in their lives. And Chaos Warriors are the extreme end of the spectrum.

  9. #9

    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    I too am a HUGE fan of the warcraft Trolls, I remember people were reallypissed by them at first but not nobody can imagine them with that awesome island accent "Beware da voodoo!"

  10. #10

    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    Quote Originally Posted by Urgat View Post
    I like them both. I love my trolls in Warhammer, but I like the Warcraft variety as well, for instance.
    I forgot about the trolls. the thing i rreally like with WoW trolls is that they used to rule the world. They still have the ability to rule it if they could only come together, even with their advanced stoneage society. also, Love that tauren ahve a real society in WoW, rather than just being 'maze dwellers'.

  11. #11
    Stick figure on a beach Arnizipal's Avatar
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    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    Quote Originally Posted by Urgat View Post
    I like them both. I love my trolls in Warhammer, but I like the Warcraft variety as well, for instance.
    Warhammer trolls and Warcraft trolls are entirely different creatures though.
    Warcraft trolls are more like a Savage Orc/Hobgoblin crossbreed in Warhammer terms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sexiest_hero View Post
    I too am a HUGE fan of the warcraft Trolls, I remember people were reallypissed by them at first but not nobody can imagine them with that awesome island accent "Beware da voodoo!"
    "Whadda ya mean what kind of accent is this? It's a troll accent! Ja maka me crazy mon!"
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    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    Quote Originally Posted by lbecks View Post
    Yeah, i don't think there's going to be a WC4. When I learned they were advancing the story through WoW I knew the RTS WC was dead.

    I like when each faction or species are more complex. Like in WH I like that the northerners worship Chaos because it's evident in their lives. And Chaos Warriors are the extreme end of the spectrum.
    Not really, sooner or later wow is going to be old (too old for the next gen MMO games) so I think that when the day comes they will release WC4 so we can get the taste of a big war (alliance vs horde vs etc) and get the story progressed even further then they will release WoW 2 like they did after WC3. They will not ignore the RTS game, it makes too much money for them not too...

  13. #13
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    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    There was the Orcs: First Blood series by Stan Nicholls. The Orcs there are portrayed as warriors with a sense of honour. The trolls, though shamanic in nature, are show to be far more evolved than WH ones.

    Pretty poor books, though.
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    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    Quote Originally Posted by Bannik View Post
    Not really, sooner or later wow is going to be old (too old for the next gen MMO games) so I think that when the day comes they will release WC4 so we can get the taste of a big war (alliance vs horde vs etc) and get the story progressed even further then they will release WoW 2 like they did after WC3. They will not ignore the RTS game, it makes too much money for them not too...
    WoW makes them too much money for them to go back to WC RTS. 10 million subscribers a month is insane. It's the pay forever model doing excessively well. And it's 10 million people who would probably be annoyed going to an RTS system. Starcraft and E-Sports is now their RTS franchise. WoW has taken over the community driven multiplayer campaign with friends model. Whatever is the next step for warcraft it'll be modeled around playing with friends online each doing your part.

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    Chapter Master TheDungen's Avatar
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    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    The diffrence is thta the orcs of warcraft are a real humanoid race corrupted by demons and set on a rampage.

    The orcs of warhammer is walking fungi. They're a biological weapon created by an advanced race to be the perfect shock troops. your an old one and you have a hostile planet on your hands. drop some greenskin spores and watch them mutate into greenskins with the specific abilities they need to survive the enviroment. Whiel it may take time the orcs will eventually destroy everythign on the planet. The you descend and say that you are gork (or mork) and tell them that you have come to bring them to new battles. and then you drop them on the next planet you want destroyed.

    They're one dimensional because they're organic constructs. Closer to the earthen of warcraft (though theese are not warriors) than their orcs.

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    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDungen View Post
    The orcs of warhammer is walking fungi. They're a biological weapon created by an advanced race to be the perfect shock troops. your an old one and you have a hostile planet on your hands. drop some greenskin spores and watch them mutate into greenskins with the specific abilities they need to survive the enviroment.
    Greenskins are not Old One creation in Warhammer Fantasy.
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    Chapter Master TheDungen's Avatar
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    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    since wh40k and whfb is part of the same multiuniverse what is true is one is true in the other. While scholars in the warhammer world may think they're not they're obviously mistaken in that case.


    Also i was under the impression GW didnt do word of god statements.

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    Stick figure on a beach Arnizipal's Avatar
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    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDungen View Post
    since wh40k and whfb is part of the same multiuniverse what is true is one is true in the other.
    No, otherwise we' have Orcs building tanks and guns and all sorts of powerful weaponry (it's encoded into their genes after all).

    At a hazard you could say the two games systems are linked through the Warp/Realm of Chaos, but they have no influence on each other in terms of background.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDungen View Post
    Also i was under the impression GW didnt do word of god statements.
    The 8th edition Big Rule Book does just that (as did the 7th edition one before it).
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigur View Post
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    Chapter Master Urgat's Avatar
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    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDungen View Post
    since wh40k and whfb is part of the same multiuniverse what is true is one is true in the other. While scholars in the warhammer world may think they're not they're obviously mistaken in that case.


    Also i was under the impression GW didnt do word of god statements.
    Nothing to do with scholars or anything. In the 7th ed rule book, it's stated black on white (in a word of god statement, mind) that greenskin spores attached to the Old Ones' ships, and when they realized it, it was too late, and however hard they tried to eradicate them, they never succeeded.

  20. #20
    Chapter Master TheDungen's Avatar
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    Re: Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

    Ok so bringing them to the warhammer world was a mistake we still have 40k stating that the orks were created by the old ones. one doesnt rule the other out. The old ones ar eknown to make mistakes (in fact thats the only think we know about them).

    and gw makign word of god statements is disturbing =(

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