Settings with intelligent orcs/trolls/goblins/ogres

[Scalebug]

It could be explained with either the genetic founder effect; the strand of greenskins brought to the warhammer world by chance lacking the technological knowledge, and all their decendants because of this lacking it, mutation caused by the collapse of the gates destroying those genes, or the Old Ones before their fall while failing to exterminate them, managing to at least diminish their threat by removing it with their magic-technology.

Or you can choose to not take the "insidious spores" statement to not mean spores literally, but rather as a term for the influence of pests...

[Craze_b0i]

Ok so bringing them to the warhammer world was a mistake we still have 40k stating that the orks were created by the old ones. one doesnt rule the other out. The old ones ar eknown to make mistakes (in fact thats the only think we know about them).

and gw makign word of god statements is disturbing =(

It has never been stated by GW that warhammer and 40k are in the same universe.

In fact the strongest indication that they are not is the differing statements given on the birth of the chaos gods. And before you say it no it is not simply "what people in that universe believe" because both accounts are written from a god-perspective.

Secondly the 2 universes are thematically different. Warhammer is a parody of earth, 40k is earth in the future.

[Urgat]

It has never been stated by GW that warhammer and 40k are in the same universe.

Actually, they used to be, the Warhammer world was supposed to be a planet lost in a warp storm, but then they changed their mind, they even stated in the 90s that they were not linked at all anymore, but since I can't remember where, I'm refraining from mentioning it as I can provide no proof.

[TheDungen]

I remeber reading an old fluff bible written from the point of one of the old ones, not sure it was ever published but it related to both wh40k things and whfb things

[Dustfinger]

Speaking of things that used to be but were never published- I loved the idea that goblins had the most advanced greenskin society and engaged in trade with the dwarves and wars with the orcs until the need for the goblins to subjegate themselves under orcs for protection.

[TheDungen]

I like that piece, Not thta people wouldnt whine ifinatly if they implemented it. But goblins always seemed driven by more than just lust for battle.

[Arnizipal]

Speaking of things that used to be but were never published- I loved the idea that goblins had the most advanced greenskin society and engaged in trade with the dwarves and wars with the orcs until the need for the goblins to subjegate themselves under orcs for protection.

Goblin tribes can war with Orcs provided the Goblins are numerous (and ambitious) enough.
They're also better crafsmen and traders than Orcs so except the part where they trade with Dwarfs (which seems very un-Warhammery to me to begin with) all of what you said is already part of the background.

[Athelassan]

To be honest I'm not sure that even the "the WHF world is lost in a warp storm" thing was ever official canon; I suspect sometimes it was just a popular fan theory that became globally accepted (some time after being redacted).

When it comes to word of god statements, GW used to, and now do again, make them all the time. They stopped for a bit in the late 90s/early 2000s (roughly coinciding with the 6th and 3rd editions of WFB and 40K games respectively) then started up again when it became inconvenient to do everything in-character.

In any case, there's nothing to indicate that the Old Ones are the same across universes. In fact, I'd say it's very likely that they're not, given the implied fate of the Old Ones in Xenology and the explicit refutation of the same theory in Tome of Salvation.

Back in first edition (and possibly second) the goblins did indeed have some sort of trading relationship with the Dwarfs (although this had been disrupted after what amounted to a bar fight between a Dwarf lord and (iirc) Grom). But the WHF world in those days was not the WHF world of today, and while it's fun to 'port the odd character between 1st and later editions (as GW did with a few of their favourites) any background information really should be taken with an entire pillar of salt.

[Craze_b0i]

should be taken with an entire pillar of salt.

Much like the Old Testament in the Bible.

[Scalebug]

To be honest I'm not sure that even the "the WHF world is lost in a warp storm" thing was ever official canon; I suspect sometimes it was just a popular fan theory that became globally accepted (some time after being redacted).

No, it was canon, explicitly written out in the Lost and Damned book (1990), it is the "GW has later said that they are not connected" that is the fan theory, or rather, someone re-telling what they read on warseer, through so many iterations it is believed to be truth...

That said, having it as a world in the 40K milky way, even with "a warpstorm did it" gets a bit strained, so it has not really been mentioned since the aformentioned book.

[Drongol]

No, it was canon, explicitly written out in the Lost and Damned book (1990), it is the "GW has later said that they are not connected" that is the fan theory, or rather, someone re-telling what they read on warseer, through so many iterations it is believed to be truth...

The "not connected" part was explained in a White Dwarf in the... Early 00s, I believe, although I do not have it handy. If memory serves, it was stated by Jervis in one of his articles, but again, I do not exactly hang on to my White Dwarfs for use in a fluff argument years in the future.

[Scalebug]

The "not connected" part was explained in a White Dwarf in the... Early 00s, I believe, although I do not have it handy. If memory serves, it was stated by Jervis in one of his articles, but again, I do not exactly hang on to my White Dwarfs for use in a fluff argument years in the future.

Nope, did not happen.

(Think of it like this; So many times this have been discussed, if such a statement actually had existed, someone would have remembered and quoted it.)

[Urgat]

Nope, did not happen.

(Think of it like this; So many times this have been discussed, if such a statement actually had existed, someone would have remembered and quoted it.)

Yes, it did happen, I read it myself. Now I'm not going to browse through dozens and dozens of White dwarf that are 200km away from my home, so either you accept it, or you call me a liar and then we're done. Though I remember it was in the mid 90s, not the early 2000s.

[Craze_b0i]

Taking for a moment the thesis that warhammer and earth are in the same galaxy... It would be kinda funny if a group of Frenchmen joined the Imperial Guard, then their space-ship got caught in a warp-storm and crash landed in Bretonnia. "Mon dieu, ils parlent francais!"

[Athelassan]

I've found the relevant quote from Lost and the Damned, buried in a paragraph about monoliths of all things:

"The Warhammer World is bounded by storms of magic so that it remains isolated from the other worlds of the human galaxy. Elsewhere the forces of the Imperium tenaciously fight the influences of Chaos, so that the open aggression of Chaos Champions and their forces is restricted to zones not controlled by the Imperium. On worlds where Champions of Chaos attain daemonhood or death there are monoliths to their memory just as on the Warhammer World."
- LatD, p.77

For me the interpretation of the quote turns on two words: "human", and "elsewhere". If these are removed the statement becomes much more ambiguous. As it is, the writers of LatD still seem unwilling to overcommit to this idea. As far as I can tell it's only the section on monoliths that makes any mention of the connection at all. Later on the prospect of a bunch of 40K Chaos renegades fighting Warhammer armies is raised:

"A Chaos Renegade force can be pitched against a conventional Warhammer Fantasy Army if you wish, in which case the Renegades are assumed to have landed upon an isolated primitive world which does not form part of the Imperium."
-p.252

The Warhammer World is not named as this world, which strikes me as kind of odd.

There's also this, from Slaves to Darkness:

"Chaos, in its many forms, suffuses the world of Warhammer Fantasy Battle and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. (...) The universe of Warhammer 40,000 is also marked by Chaos, but its effects are of a different order. (...) [Reality and the Warp] are separate in Warhammer 40,000, not intermixed as in the world of Warhammer Fantasy Battle."
- Slaves to Darkness, p.218

That seems fairly clear that the two are distinct settings.

I'm not disputing the legitimacy of the original quote, but this does look rather like typical GW oversight/confusing/bet-hedging to me. In all honesty, I can't believe the fanbase has had a twenty-two year argument over what amounts to a footnote in a long-superseded rulebook.

Regarding the Jervis Johnson thing, well, whether that quote ever existed, it seems to have long since disappeared into the mists of time. Although the way I'd always heard it was that it was Gav Thorpe at a live Q&A, I think. In any case, Graham McNeill is on the record as saying that Sigmar isn't a Primarch (Black Library Live! last year), although that was dropped casually into conversation rather than made a big deal of. I'm pretty sure that I've seen Marc Gascoigne refute the possibility of a modern link on the old BL fora, but that's anecdotal, especially since the fora are long gone. The post from Marijan von Staufer here, though, is informative.

[Sexiest_hero]

Space marines started out as a unit from the future, you could use in fantasy, waaay bakin the day when you could hae ork and eldar mercs, space marines had hover bikes, and Chaos space marine back packs were the way their jump pack looked. They were at the beginning very connected.

[Scalebug]

Space marines started out as a unit from the future, you could use in fantasy, waaay bakin the day when you could hae ork and eldar mercs, space marines had hover bikes, and Chaos space marine back packs were the way their jump pack looked. They were at the beginning very connected.

Well, kinda... It was never just a "these guys are from the future", but the games were compatible and WD 93, presenting 40K says

The Warhammer 40K background is an extension of the Warhammer game series, linking the Wharhammer Fantasy Battle and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay games into a complete background.

(Yeah, I had that one on the computer since one of the umpteen previous threads on this topic, it was not in my head... )

...but there wasn't an actual mentioning of how until the Latd book, as quoted by Athelassan above (and add to that the chances in the campaign rules in the same book of your warhammer/40K warband being temporarily whisked away by their patron to fight in the "other" setting for a few battles.

Prior to that there were a precursor to the 40K setting by inserting sci-fi weaponry, in one of the Citadel Journals (could have sworn I read it as a scan over at Stuff of Legends, but can't find it now).

[TheDungen]

I'd always guessed they are parallel universes and the warhammer world is what terra could have been under diffrent circumstances (propably diverging before the planet was even fully formed). then both linked through the warp (kinda like all alternate realities in the wheel of time is linked though tel'aran'rhiod). and if the warp could link diffrent realities then the old ones would've been able to acess them cause the webay is in the warp anyway. But thats pure seculation.

[Scalebug]

I'd always guessed they are parallel universes and the warhammer world is what terra could have been under diffrent circumstances (propably diverging before the planet was even fully formed). then both linked through the warp (kinda like all alternate realities in the wheel of time is linked though tel'aran'rhiod). and if the warp could link diffrent realities then the old ones would've been able to acess them cause the webay is in the warp anyway. But thats pure seculation.

The musings of a scholar in the 6th ed BRB fluff section supports this view, something along the lines of "infinite worlds where every variant of history is played out". Would explain the earth likenesses and all characters that are puns/references to historical or fictional figures.

[Craze_b0i]

I'd always guessed they are parallel universes and the warhammer world is what terra could have been under diffrent circumstances .

Well being in parallel universe is certainly plausible. But I don't think warhammer is an alternate evolution of Earth. For one thing the warhammer planet is 2 times bigger. I see it rather as an alien planet that happens to play host to a string of similarities.