I'm glad people whine and doom gloom, when the sky starts falling so do ebay prices. Somebody Will be silly enough to rage quit, and that means buy low sell high (Does Prospector Jig)!
I'm glad people whine and doom gloom, when the sky starts falling so do ebay prices. Somebody Will be silly enough to rage quit, and that means buy low sell high (Does Prospector Jig)!
First, for all the people wanting to sell off your Empire armies b/c the new book is broken, quick, PM me and I'll be happy to take them off your hands.
As for the rumors, it's just like every new release: some excitement, some resentment, plenty of over-reaction. It hasn't changed in decades, it ain't going to change tomorrow.
But, if they're true, my take is:
1. Mortars- I think Crud tried to balance them and thought "they can go down in strength...or maybe I'll raise the point cost." Then, he forgot to finalize his draft and left both in.
2. New stuff- I don't like either of the new contraptions (looks alone) and they seem too over-the-top in appearance. Of course, I never used a Steam Tank either, they just don't fit with my theme. As for the angry emus, I mean flightless gryphon riders, while they might be fun to paint, they don't fit with my theme either, and, will probably be too expensive (points-wise) to fit in with the other point increases. Never mind their actual price tag.
3. Flagellants- I don't mind the point increase b/c frankly, they were a chainsaw. And now that there is no unit-size restriction (supposedly), yikes!
4. Witch Hunters- They have Witch Hunters! Who cares what their rules are, that's amazing! (Especially for my theme).
5. State Troops- a point increase does seem odd given the direction of 8th edition, but it's only 1 point. So if you were to field 100 troopers, that's only 100 points. Big whoop.
6. Knights- Went down in points.(!) Um, yes, please. It'll make fielding my horde of them even cheaper. (And will balance out the State Troops above). A nice wash.
Oh, my theme? A crusading force of Morr.
In any case, Crud is not doing a good job (IMO), and I'm not sure what GW's thought process is allowing him to design stuff. To be fair, there seems to be little cross-talk about balance/consistency across army books by all designers as GW becomes fragmented and shareholder-driven. But that's a rant for a different thread.
How does everyone seem to have the new empire rules? I could swear they arnt out yet......
If you havent read them then how can you comment on them?
I have them cause I work at a store.
Several people have the book now. Its just not out to the general public until tomorrow. If you work at a game store chances are you already have seen the book as you have it in inventory now. And if yuo know someone who works at a store they may have let you look already *wink wink*
NOTE: my use of the word "powergamer" is not meant as a derrogatory or inflammatory word used in a negative context. It is used to describe a type of player that uses power builds
There's also non-GW gaming shops that get GW goods early- that's how I got mine.
Ok, so a few people here have read it
I've got the book. I guess its just me (it usually is), but it seems pretty good, especially in the context of the new 8th books.
Just because the horse is dead is no reason to stop flogging it.
they see me trollin, they hatin
DESTINY IS CALLING!!! but beer is on the other line.....
Their WS has been increased though- and The End Is Nigh chart now, at peak, grants +1 T.Originally Posted by loveless
Mortars may be only S2 on a non-direct hit- but the Multiple Wounds (D3) now applies to all hits, not just the direct ones.
I don't own the book yet, but the local LGS owner who got his order today did allow me to browse. If you've been keeping up with the rumour threads you know almost everything by now.
I was slightly shocked by what he did to flaggellants, they seem to be the worst unit in the book now, and yes that is taking the mortar über-nerf into account. There is absolutely no reason to ever bring flaggellants now. The martyrdom mechanic is absolutely killer, You now cannot choose to not martyr, so you will be haemoraging models from the moment you reach combat, in addition you now take d6 str 3 hits and the number of casualties (not hits, actual models lost) determines the bonus. The problem is that getting all the bonuses (the last to be gained being +1T) you have to martyr 4 models, which requires pretty slick rolling from D6 S3 hits, and even then, losing 48 points worth of models before the enemy strike to boost your T by 1 is hardly worth it.
Last edited by Spiney Norman; 05-04-2012 at 20:08.
any argument to say that they're thinking of us by turning metal to resin is as convincing as a frenzied Khorne worshipper covered in blood, still chomping on a victim, with a Khorne sigil tattooed to his forhead pleading a case of mistaken identity when questioned about a murder.
That's why when I sit down and analyze choices why, while I don't think the mortar is super amazing anymore, don't see it anywhere near "worthless".
I also find uses for flagellents with the new rules. They just aren't auto-include. But not being auto-include doesn't make them horrible either.
Overall I'd give this list a solid rating, alongside the other 8th lists that have come out, and not as powerful as the 7th ed lists (which is to be expected).
NOTE: my use of the word "powergamer" is not meant as a derrogatory or inflammatory word used in a negative context. It is used to describe a type of player that uses power builds
Flagellants are not competing with the other rare choices any more.
Hmm, I just checked that. I was sure you were wrong and it was only under the hole, but it appears that you are right. D3 wounds for anyone hit somewhat makes up for S2 I suppose...until they see their error and FAQ it (if it was an error).
I have sympathy both for the people who are excited about the new book and the ones who feel cheated. However, I feel the people who are disappointed are allowed to vent their frustration without being called whiners.
Empire is the army which has probably the most diverse following. There are people who enjoy the direction the Empire fluff is going and are keen on the more fantasy feel of the army. Others like the more historical feel and wish to play a near-historical army, but with the benefits of having well-supported rules and the opportunity to find opponents easily. Finally, many Empire players (including myself) use the book as a substitute for dogs of war, which was discontinued some years ago. These different groups of players have very different expectations but I feel they are all equally entitled to get a product they can be happy with.
The previous book had reasonable internal balance but allowed building extremely competitive lists (but not worse than DE, skaven lizardmen, deamons, HE with Teclis and ogres). However, it also made it possible to build viable fluffy lists. For instance I have a pirates of Sartosa army which took me a long time to build. It is based on free company, drunken mob (counts as flagellants), a couple of cannons and some chaff. This army is not viable anymore and I suspect this is the case of many other Empire armies. I'm not overly happy about it and I feel GW failed in its duties to ensure that what I had pursued from them would be usable for a reasonable amount of time.
Very generally, the new book is internally imbalanced and comes across as a lazy job, people are talking about the mortar, flagellants, handgunners or the reduction in cost of Level 4 wizards, but what really suggests to me that it was a botched job is the nerfing of the robo-horse, which was already absolutely terrible before and I've never seen it in taken before. Anyway, I could live with (and would have welcome) a general decrease in power level affecting all units in the Empire list. However, what annoys me is that the imbalance was probably partly motivated by commercial decisions, as the new kits (the buff-mobiles and the half-chicken) are clearly overpowered compared to the rest of the army.
My project log: To Infinity and Beyond
Nope, they are competing with the other special choices, which include greatswords, which are not only better at everything, they also cost less. Derp.....
Having said that I don't own any flaggellants and didn't use them when they were the best unit in the book, frothing religious loonies just werent my thing.
It looks like Robin Cruddace basically took the games most varied army book, make half the options in it worthless or nearly worthless and added a few overpowered new things to it. Great job, the Empire now has about 2 workable builds...
Last edited by Spiney Norman; 05-04-2012 at 20:23.
any argument to say that they're thinking of us by turning metal to resin is as convincing as a frenzied Khorne worshipper covered in blood, still chomping on a victim, with a Khorne sigil tattooed to his forhead pleading a case of mistaken identity when questioned about a murder.
In the previous book they went out of their way to emphasis that indirect hits only did 1 wound- by having two separate rows- with Str, Wounds, etc each listed separately depending on if it's direct on indirect.
In this one, they don't- simply going with "Str 2(6)" and listing the other properties all in one row. If it's not an error, it would make it not too shabby.
I'm not sure what you mean, Str 2(6) means it does a single str 6 hit to the model under the hole and a str 2 hit to everyone else touched by the template. I don't think whether your using the indirect fire rule matters at all. If I remember the model under the hole takes a str 6 hit with multiple wounds D3.
Last edited by Spiney Norman; 05-04-2012 at 20:27.
any argument to say that they're thinking of us by turning metal to resin is as convincing as a frenzied Khorne worshipper covered in blood, still chomping on a victim, with a Khorne sigil tattooed to his forhead pleading a case of mistaken identity when questioned about a murder.
What I mean is, in the older book, everything touched by the template but not under the hole (which is what I was referring to when I said "indirect hit") was specifically called out as only taking one wound- and the Multiple Wounds trait only applied to "direct hits"- being under the hole.
This has been changed- now all hits from the Mortar are now Multiple Wounds- because there's only one "row" in the Mortar's statted effects- instead of two.
There's always someone here who cannot control his temper. Hint: For once it's not me.
These irrational and aggressive posts appear in their dozens and hundreds when someone even voices some slight scepticism. Perhaps we don't feel the need to include disclaimers about not having read the book in every second sentence...but the information is out there, and it is very very solid, having been confirmed by multiple credible sources.
Nobody ever claimed it was, RanaldLoec, so you can end your fit.As that's all it is your opinion not an irrefutable fact.
Happy hunting but don't count on it: Nobody's claimed the sky is falling. The book may be crap but it's just a game, and there's always Steam to pass some spare time. All those reproaches are your own invention.
Last edited by Lord Solar Plexus; 05-04-2012 at 20:37.
I think they're paying mostly for unbreakable, in an army that otherwise doesn't have it. But you're right, that is pretty high points cost for a unit that innately tries to kill itself in exchange for slight upgrades.
Just because the horse is dead is no reason to stop flogging it.
they see me trollin, they hatin
DESTINY IS CALLING!!! but beer is on the other line.....
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
