im looking for some help with making a tyranids list

[doubleplay2888]

40K Army: Tyranids

ive recently started collecting tyranids and before i go and get more models than i have im looking to come up with a moderately competitive list for some friendly game play. something that is good but doesnt have to be tournament read. ive been thinking about it and i kinda wanna stay away from the cookie cut tervigon and gaunt lists. infact i'd like to field no gaunts at all.

so i was thinking gene stealers. but other than that i dont really know where to go. as i dont really have much past a hive tyrant and a unit of stealers model wise most anything goes.

does anyone have any ideas on how to make it work well? idea are good or if you wanna take the time to make a list thats cool to. please and thank you.

[Philip_Cohen]

What you want sounds like a reserve list (of sorts) and they can work very well. Stealers are one of the better units in the new codex and being troops makes them very viable.

How many points are you fielding? If you are not planning on making this a tournament army, what is the meta you will be mostly playing against?

My suggestions: Assemble your tyrant as the swarmlord, he has a range of excellent abilities not least of which is his ability to re-roll outflank dice. Put him with two tyrant guard to give him a bit more survivability. For elites get one unit of 3 zoans in a pod, cause you need something to take out land raiders. Then get two units of Hive Guard (either two per group or three per group depending on the number of tanks in your meta and the need to open up tanks for targets for your stealers. Get 5 units of stealers. Their composiotion should depend on your meta. Is is mostly space marines? or do you come eup against a lot of xenos? If mostly space marines, get squads of ten with toxin sacs, the re-rolls you get to wound (equal toughness) make your stealers extra powerfull- more rends- and also make sthem a big threat to dreadknights, and other MCs. If you're mostly up against dark eldar or other light skimmers, and T3, no need for toxins as you make yourself hit on a 4 with rerolls instead of a 3 which isn't worth it for the points.

As for your last troop choice, I know you don't like gaunts, but I would still suggest getting one squad of ten termagaunts for tactical reasons. First when you deploy them, put them in front of your swarmlord, as the majority of his unit is not monstruous (the tyrant guard) the entire squad gets a cover save which is almsot as good as a 4++ when you're walking in. then pull the gaunts back to sit on your home objective, this means you don't need to redirect a valuable (and expensive) unit of stealers to do this job when they should be out killing stuff.

As for fast attack and heavy support you have a few options. I would recommend trygons w adrenal glands (no need for prime really) (3 if possible ) these can either start on the board and run up providing target saturation for you swarmlord, or they can DS benefitting from your swarmlords +1 to reserves role. Alternatively you could get some gargoyles from fast attack which is a relatively cheep ways of providing target saturation for your genestealers and can do some damage, although these are usually better with a flyrant to support them (The swarmlord is better than a flyrant if you are using stealers due to the ability to re-roll outflank roles). The other possibility that could be fun is to get a tyranid prime (I converted a warrior) from HQ and join him to the swarmlord unit. This allows a unit to have regeneration from the prime, and allows insane wound allocation shenanigans.

as you can see lots of possibilities. If you give some more information - like what your meta is and what points you're shooting for I'l knock up a suggested list if you like

[doubleplay2888]

well i play with a local group that between the like 15 people there is prolly every codex. there is like 2-3 chaos marine players and 4 marine players split between all the dexs. i honestly dont see a ton of mech. like 3-4 tanks max in most lists accept the dark eldar player. theres one or two horde players too. i really face a pretty even mix of stuff. one of the guard players does all infantry....

point count wise im looking to build a 1850 first then prolly expand it to a 2500 or so maybe.

i like the swarmlord my only thing is he seems kinda slow... but i guess he is also an intimidation thing too.

[Philip_Cohen]

Hello again

so, I suggest you build up your 1850 first and see what you like and what you'd like to try before you finish up to 2500.

And yes, the swarmlord is slow. However you are not using him as an assault unit. You are using him for his many many buffs, as a counter assault unit and as fear factor. The Swarmlord is one of (if not THE) best Close combat units out there but he is only really efective in the counter assault. Because of his scariness people usually shoot him up very early on. And this means that any other big toughness creatures will live that much longer (hence taking tripple trygons ). For a meta like that, with a fairly broad spread the list I would suggest would look something like this:

HQ
Swarmlord 280
Tyrant guard w LW 130

Elites
Hive Guard x2 100
Zoanthrope x3 in MS 220

Troops
Genestealers x10 w TS 170
Genestealers x10 w TS 170
Genestealers x10 w TS 170
Genestealers x10 140
Termagaunts x10 50

HS
Trygon w AG 210
Trygon w AG 210


TOTAL 1850

Swarmlord, guard set up first with termagants arrayed in front to provide them cover. Trygons are also started on the field, in cover if possible, otherwise behind swarmlord which will provide cover first turn. Hive guard start forward in cover. genestealers and zoans outflank/deepstrike. First turn everything moves forwards Hive guard attempt to explode transports to facilitate genestealers. second turn the original group does the same outflankers come on on a 3+ and reroll outflank dice. zoans deepstrike and try to blow up bigger tanks or MEQ. The genestealers without TS should go after transports and with TS can go either troops or transports (rending gives them a fairly good chance of exploding transports)

thats about it. when you expand it you could add in maybe a flyrant and a group of 30 AG TS hormagaunts with rerolled outflank (combined tyrant abilities) - that is FUN. and another trygon and a group of Hive guard perhaps

EDIT: a quick thought on toxin stealers vs. normal stealers. Toxin stealers are far more effective against MC's (bye bye dreadknights and wraithlords ;D) and will reroll wounds against MEQ. Points wise they have roughly similar killy power against MEQ with toxin stealers coming out slightly ahead and normal stealers having better survivability. Against GEQ they also have roughly equal killy power per point, this time with normal stealers coming out slightly on top. There has been heaps of debate on this topic but they come out roughly equal. I prefer taking toxin stealers practically. I think they are more effective and there is something inately satisfying about rerolling all your wounds, and with the swarmlord's buffs then rerolling all your hits too. But experiment and see which you prefer (oh and the list above has one unit without TS and 3 with because I ran out of points)

what do you think?

[doubleplay2888]

i like the list. it really fits more or less what i am looking for. only thing i got is alot of what ive read about using stealers say that taking the broodlord is a great idea. i know there arent points in the 1850 but do you think they might be worth looking in to later on??

[Philip_Cohen]

The broodlord is a great idea, especially if you have only one brood. He increases the lifespan of the brood and is particularly good at going up against command squads (there is nothing quite like making Mephiston or Drago completely powerless ). However you don't have many points to spare and your anti-amazing-HQ unit is your own amazing HQ, the Swarmlord. You use the swarmlord to counter charge whatever unit the super-HQ has already charged, then the tyrant guards lash whips make them strike last and you clean up.

But in answer to your question, yes the broodlord is a very nice upgrade if you have the points. he costs almost ~4x a toxin stealer, he has the wounds of 3 stealers and the attacks of two stealers. That is the main reason why he is not an essential upgrade, but his psychic powers and improved armour save can make him worth it in certain situations (in my opinion). Like I said that more makes him and his unit a command unit killer, but he is still effective against other units, it's just that normal stealers are good against other units already.

but that is my long tirade to a simple question

[doubleplay2888]

lol well thanks. do you think that one or two might be a good idea to squeeze in to like the 2500 later on?

[Philip_Cohen]

Well it's your army so go for it. They're not a bad choice and they're fun so if you want to do it