HELP! Starting Cryx need 15-25pts of Anti Horde w/ Venethrax

[tewfik]

I'm about to start playing Warmachine/Hordes with some friends who are already into it. They are currently playing Skorne and Trollbloods.

I'm looking to start a Cryx group and looking to start with Venethrax to take advantage of playing 2 Hordes players.
I'm aware that Cryx isn't the best "pick-up/starter army" but I don't mind the challenge.

Can anyone give me a few options for a 15-25 point counter horde army started?? I'd prefer to skip the starter box and just jump into the think of it.

Any pointers or help would be appreciated!!
Thanks in Advance

~Tewfik

[Deadnight]

meh. why counter?! tailoring your lists is poor form, if you ask me. and its not necessary.

you dont need a specific anti-hordes list/caster to do well. this is not a game where "the list" will do it for you. Regardless, cryx have plenty fantastic casters, jacks and units that are great against everything. is there any particular style that you're looking for? the problem with asking for "options" in this game is pretty much everything is valid as a choice - everything can be built into an effective winning strategy, whether is a Morty jack-heavy list, Skarre Banespam list or anything involving the zombie ghost pirates, for example. Banes are good. bile thralls are good. Mcthralls are good.satyxis are good. *shrug*. go with what you like the look of.

Also, i would still recomment the starter box. you need to learn to walk before you run, after all. and the cryx startercaster Denny is well regarded as a top-notch control caster. you cant go wrong with her. start small. starter box. cut your teeth on it. figure out focus, spells, order of activation, feats etc. then move on to bigger things.

[yool1981]

meh. why counter?! tailoring your lists is poor form, if you ask me. and its not necessary.

you dont need a specific anti-hordes list/caster to do well. this is not a game where "the list" will do it for you. Regardless, cryx have plenty fantastic casters, jacks and units that are great against everything. is there any particular style that you're looking for? the problem with asking for "options" in this game is pretty much everything is valid as a choice - everything can be built into an effective winning strategy, whether is a Morty jack-heavy list, Skarre Banespam list or anything involving the zombie ghost pirates, for example. Banes are good. bile thralls are good. Mcthralls are good.satyxis are good. *shrug*. go with what you like the look of.

Although I agree tailoring a list is not the best thing in Warmahordes, I disagree with the "everything is good" policy. Some things are just more competitive than others in certain metas. Not everybody has an infinite budget in collecting minis. Honestly this kind of advice led me to buy stuff that I wouldn't have had I known.

Tewfik, maybe you should go there if you need specific advices on a Cryx caster and the synergies with the various troops and jacks: http://privateerpressforums.com/show...a-loyal-minion

Also, i would still recomment the starter box. you need to learn to walk before you run, after all. and the cryx startercaster Denny is well regarded as a top-notch control caster. you cant go wrong with her. start small. starter box. cut your teeth on it. figure out focus, spells, order of activation, feats etc. then move on to bigger things.

Why taking a starter box if he doesn't want to own a billion chickens and is not interested in pDenny (I btw agree with you about her strong abilities)?
I however agree that it would be better to only start with jacks and a caster in order to understand the basic game mechanics.

[Tort]

Venethrax is probably not the best caster against trollbloods and Skorne anyway. While I don't play Skorne I'd be much less worried about facing him with my trollbloods than either Deneghra, either Asphixious or either Skarre or even Scaverous. The way Venethrax plays is he keeps all his focus on himself to raise his armour and upkeeps Dragon Slayer. He doesn't really do anything for his troops or have any tricks other than slowly moving forward and killing stuff. Makes him a good foil for one of the trickier casters at tournaments (you generally take 2+ lists to warmachine tournaments).

As for learning with Cryx they aren't particularly difficult to learn with, though they are a glass cannon faction they are pretty powerful even before you master their synergies. The cryx battlebox is a great place to start, most of the other battleboxes are pretty mediocre but the Cryx one is great. My other advice would be to have a look round on battlecollege for a good outline of what a model does and some basic tactical tips. The thing with warmachine is that it takes some time to get an understanding of the game before you can understand how things work together and build good lists. Synergy is really important in this game and if you dive in and buy a bunch of models you'll find you have a bunch of stuff that doesn't really work. So if you aren't going to start with the battlebox start small. For Venethrax you could try a Seether, a full unit of bane thralls and Darragh Wrathe. That'll give you 15 points and it's models you'll use (even if the seether is just the jack made by the withershadow combine, the character jacks are generally more popular choices).

[Deadnight]

Although I agree tailoring a list is not the best thing in Warmahordes, I disagree with the "everything is good" policy. Some things are just more competitive than others in certain metas. Not everybody has an infinite budget in collecting minis. Honestly this kind of advice led me to buy stuff that I wouldn't have had I known.
.

while its true that you cant just slap models down in the table, i think its truer to say that everything can be built into an effective, winning strategy. the interwebs might say somethings are "better". for example, according to the interwebs, i should stick with (khador, btw) iron flesh casters,beast09, the Winter Guard Deathstar, Kayazy, and the Breat Bears. all of those are certainly awesome, and certainly competitive, but i dont need them to play well. heck, i came second in a scottish tourney fielding an epic Butcher theme list comprising just doom reavers! and ultimately, although each are good, each has extremely hard counters. thats what i love about this game. there really are no "must haves" in this game. and thats why i say everything is good.

Why taking a starter box if he doesn't want to own a billion chickens and is not interested in pDenny (I btw agree with you about her strong abilities)?
I however agree that it would be better to only start with jacks and a caster in order to understand the basic game mechanics.

because i think its a good idea to start with the starter packs? Without trying to sound dodgy, just because someone wants to do something one way doesnt necessarily mean its the best way to go about it. those chickens (and slayer) are awesome units, and will come in handy down the road. i've known people who've "dived right in", and they got overwhelmed, pretty badly, pretty quickly. hence my advice is always to start small, find your feet and then build up.

[Spirit]

I have to agree that playing venethrax vs hordes may allow you to get good at the game faster, but once you get his tricks down your opponents are goingto stop having fun, he really does destroy hordes.

If your wanting a caster thats still anti hordes, id look to Mortenebra.

That being said, if you want to use Venny, you want to have a reaper helljack to drag those beasts into range. You want a skarlock thrall to throw out soul harvestor without losing armour on venethrax. The withershadow combine is nice for their ability to upkeep a spell for free (and thus keeping venethrax at his maximum armour)

Venny is all about camping focus to become hard to kill, then using that to stay close enough forward to snack on enemy beasts.

[basher]

now i agree with deadnight on getting the starter box it's always the best place to start

but when you guys are saying that venny is a one trick pony your very wrong
yes he's good at killing enemy warbeasts and playing by attrition but your opponents will soon pic up on that.I've seen him used quiet effectivly in a tornament just recently
using lamentation then bloodraining and hellfireing his opponent through two defilers, who in turn were corroding as much as possible and the guy came second in the tourny.
Just to top it off he's only been playing for 6 months

[Tort]

Venethrax is NOT good anti hordes he's good at killing warbeasts and generally keeps his ARM high enough to stay alive. Trollbloods not only have more infantry than warbeasts in general but also have the tools to get past his high ARM.

[yool1981]

Venethrax is NOT good anti hordes he's good at killing warbeasts and generally keeps his ARM high enough to stay alive. Trollbloods not only have more infantry than warbeasts in general but also have the tools to get past his high ARM.

At 15-25pts though, the Warbeasts will still represent a high % of most of Hordes players army.

for example, according to the interwebs, i should stick with (khador, btw) iron flesh casters,beast09, the Winter Guard Deathstar, Kayazy, and the Breat Bears

Starting with those is easier than starting with the kossite woodmen.
In most of the armies, for the same amount of points, you've got choices that will fit into a higher % of lists (especially at the beginning).
It's fair to say that if he starts with, for example, Cephalyxes he'll have a harder time playing as a beginner than with Bane thralls. He'll also have invested into a unit that he'll field far less often than the thralls.

[Tort]

At 15-25pts though, the Warbeasts will still represent a high % of most of Hordes players army.

True but even at 25 points we can kill him, he scares me a lot less than everything else in Cryx except the two Goreshades. It's not that he's bad against trolls just that everything else in Cryx is better.

As for units - saying everything is good is a silly as saying you have to take units regarded by the internet to be superior in order to be competitive. Some models are better than others, some models are not that good. Caster synergies can change the equation some what (although Venethrax really has no synergies except maybe Bile Thralls).

[Jerrus]

When playing Venethrax the Withershadow Combine are nice because they can upkeep a spell for you so you have more focus to camp. And I would also recommend using the Deathjack and/or Seethers, as they are quite focus efficiant.

[Havock]

I really advice against siccing Venethrax on fellow starters. It's won't be fun for them.