2500 point Empire List for all comers

[Blkc57]

Fantasy Army: BoC

Ok so after a few test games I am keeping the units that actually performed well in my list. After I've listed them I'll describe the general setup and plan.

Grandmaster, General 259
Shield, Runefang, Other Tricksters Shard

Wizard Lord lvl 4 Light 345
Dispell Scroll, Luminark of Hysh

Captain of the Empire, BSB 141
Full Plate, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation

Warrior Priest 122
Great Weapon, Heavy Armor, White Cloak

Warrior Priest 67
Hand Weapon, Shield

Witch Hunter 105
Brace of Pistols and Magic Carpet

Witch Hunter 50

1089 in Characters

29 SwordsMen with Full command and 2 x 15 man Halberd detachments 413 pts

9 Inner Circle Knights Full Command 290 pts
Steel Standard

703 Core

28 Great swords full command 348
Banner of Discipline

1 Great Cannon 120 pts

1 Great Cannon 120 Pts

588 Special

1 Hellblaster Volley Gun

120 rare


So the general strategy is to set up the Great swords in front with the BSB and the White cloaked War priest in the unit. The firing line of the two cannons and the volley gun are set up to be clustered around the Luminark and wizard in order to benefit from the luminark's ward save, plus if I need to engage in an artillery duel the Protection of Pha is rather handy. The naked warpriest goes into the swordsmen who with their detachment hold one flank. The other flank is held by the inner circle knights that contain the general Grandmaster (his runefang gives them some awesome punching power in my opinion). The witch hunter on the carpet flies off to hunt enemy lords and wizards while the naked witch hunter lurks back in my lines to give 2+ magic resistance to any unit that looks like they need it (most likely the great swords) and slay some enemy BSB and low level wizards in combat.

Any advice? Should I just drop the second witch hunter and invest those points back into my core? Is the Volley gun too much when combined with the Double cannon/Luminark gunline?

[Shadoer]

So the general strategy is to set up the Great swords in front with the BSB and the White cloaked War priest in the unit. The firing line of the two cannons and the volley gun are set up to be clustered around the Luminark and wizard in order to benefit from the luminark's ward save, plus if I need to engage in an artillery duel the Protection of Pha is rather handy. The naked warpriest goes into the swordsmen who with their detachment hold one flank. The other flank is held by the inner circle knights that contain the general Grandmaster (his runefang gives them some awesome punching power in my opinion). The witch hunter on the carpet flies off to hunt enemy lords and wizards while the naked witch hunter lurks back in my lines to give 2+ magic resistance to any unit that looks like they need it (most likely the great swords) and slay some enemy BSB and low level wizards in combat.

Any advice? Should I just drop the second witch hunter and invest those points back into my core? Is the Volley gun too much when combined with the Double cannon/Luminark gunline?

Well first of all, my hat is off to you for trying a character assasination list when everyone is crowing about how weak Empire characters are.

1. Yeah I think you are right, with the Luminark, two cannons and a hellblaster is over kill. I'd either drop one cannon or the hellblaster.

2. Yeah I'd drop the 2nd witch hunter. By droping him and a hellblaster/cannon you'd have enough points for another detachment.

3. You know, if that witch hunter on a magic carpet, you should think of a way to convert him into riding a broom. Then he'd be a witch hunter flying on a broom

[Feldmann]

1000 points in characters is too much. Are you trying to save money?

I think with Empire it's important to construct around the core section and be very sure about which phase of the game you want to dominate.

[jonnywright104]

I think you have faaaaar too many points invested in characters!! you need to think specifically about their battlefield roles. I dont think having two witch hunters is worthwhile. Also, I believe that the detachments get hatred from the warrior priest in the parent unit (I think!!) so might not be necessary to have two.

I think two cannons and a helblaster works fine- they have different roles to each other, and having two cannons can be handy when needing to take out high wounded creatures/monsters/characters.

[frest]

Not a big fan of the witch hunter on a carpet idea, even with accusation he's just not THAT dangerous and he's far more valuable keeping a unit safe from Terror and providing MR(2)

[GodlessM]

Just as a note, the average competitive list for most armies consists of 800-900pts of characters, so 1000pts really isn't that much of a stretch.

[HalfBlood]

In my lists I run 1300 points of Lords and Heros in my Daemon list at this point level, and I have lost yet. I believe it is critical when running a gun-line that you should have sufficient amount of core units. To back up your firepower. My problem is that you have 2 average size core units to protect your 3 warmachines. Also 2 cannons + hellstorm battery are pretty overkill. Drop a cannon I say

[Spiney Norman]

Just as a note, the average competitive list for most armies consists of 800-900pts of characters, so 1000pts really isn't that much of a stretch.

Especially when part of that 1000 pts would usually be in the rare section anyway (Luminark). To be fair, my character total comes to something like 750, but that's mainly down to the griffon. Also a witch hunter on the carpet is maybe the unfluffiest thing I've ever heard, it is an ingenious way to get him mobile though, I thoroughly approve. I do the you could maybe shed the second witch hunter though, and maybe the second priest as well, greatswords don't really need one IMHO and you are very tight on points.

Even if you are planning to run a Light wizard I would still decouple him from the Luminark, he's too much of a sitting duck on torpor that thing.

Also you don't have much in the way of combat blocks, 30 swordsmen are not going to win any fights, even with some halberdiers in the flanks. It's also worth pointing it that you can't give a 29 man swordsman unit detachments of 15 men because the max size for a detachment is half the size of the regimental unit it is assigned to.

Swordsmen are the worst value state troops currently, but if you don't have anything else see how theygo.

[m1acca1551]

Yeah man, its a nice list but i;m just not sure about a few things,

2 witch hunters seems like a waste of points, even 1 strolling around the field is going to be enough to make hero level characters start to worry.
GoTE im just not sure on this guy, i have a few games this weekend will try him out

I tend to run Empire character light, but seeing as though this is a new edition i may change yes thats right change....

For your core... I will only run halberds, thank christ i didnt put together the 60 state troops or so before the book came out lol, swordsmen will be my detachments but solid blocks of S4 core will suit me to the ground, i would also advise taking a level 1 beasts for the default spell to make them even nastier.

Knights will be an interesting edition, the jury is out on them

Arty... 2 cannons and a hell balster seems fine to me, with the luminark may be seen as a power list though... just saying is all

[Slacker]

Your core selection is illegal-your swordsmen unit needs to be 30 strong to have 2 15 man detachments. Sorry to rain on your parade man.

[RTGamer]

It's fine it's half of the unit rounding up.

[Corvinus]

Yep, the new book says rounding up is ok.

[EcoWarrior]

29 swordsmen ????? they will not be steadfast against 90% of armies. IMO i think you only need 1 detachment now due to change in rules, its easier to position one in for the charge then 2 especially since deployment area aswell. Also make those detachments bigger than 15 so they can last mroe than 1 turn. If your detachment is not steadfast or stuborn you WILL no doupt fall apart after one turn against alot of things.
Witchhunters are such a cool model but a waste of points with only light armor; drop that and your grandmaster they also suck, way to much points and only T4 with no ward save, they are not even stubborn only immune to psycology. Knights are so not worth taking for the amount of points they cost unless you use them for supporting flanks, dont get the idea you can throw a grandmaster in them and they will be good; they need a warrior priest in them or they are not worth taking.
Artillery and no engineers ??????
I like greatswords but what is your plan with them ? 28 +2 characters you can get all 3 ranks attacking ye... well they allways strike last and they will lose some before they get to attack so you can reduce the amount of attacks you think you will get. IMO they only work with a detachment of 20 or so searmen (cheap, no upgrades) to take a charge and be stubborn so the greatswords can join in next turn.
Get rid of the luminark and get a Celestrial hurricanum so your greatswords and any detachments byt hem get that +1 to hit, average hitting on 3's rerolling for hatred S5 will do alot more damage.
You need more units for a start... empire are more about buffs now yes i agree but you still need numbers, if your not stubborn throughout your army.

[Soundwave]

I do not play empire but have versed them 6 times now with the new book and am loveing it to the point i would like to jump the fence!(no smy comments please)That appears to be a solid army although lacking man flesh.If you want to go character heavy maybe swap up one each of witch hunter and priest for 2 captains with as much armor and cheap ward saves as possible along with great weapons,im finding hold the line rule a massive headache(who needs lizardmen) another drive train direction would maybe be to drop all detatchment units and great swords for at least four big buses of state troops and maybe subbie a cannon for crossbows to out-range most other shooters and pick off vanguarding units?

[Jezbot]

I would think about maybe dropping a few hundred points in characters. The Witch Hunter coming in at 105 points needs a lot of dice to go his way to pay off (though admittedly the pay off is potentially spectacular), and on top of him, the other Witch Hunter and the Grand Master you've got a lot of points invested in Empire Characters that are intended to do something themselves, and this is not something the Empire typically does very well.

I would think about possibly trimming back a bit over 150 points from there, and using those points to buff up your swordsmen regiment. Ideally you could grow that unit by 102 points, as that means just it and your Knights regiment will be enough to cover your minimum core requirement, and then the detachments can be moved over to your Greatsword regiment - blocks of 15 halberdiers with stubborn are a lot more useful than blocks without it.

You might also want to think about swapping over from swordsmen to spearmen or halberdiers. At their current numbers 29 guys can get wiped really fast without any real effort at 2,500 points, while if they were spearmen you'd have 40 guys, and a much greater chance of remaining steadfast and staying in the game. At the same time, if you did grow the unit out by 102 points by cutting back on characters, then you'd have another 14 swordsmen and that'd be a fair bit more likely to survive in combat long enough to do something useful. Or you could change that unit to a block of 50 halberdiers and have a really threatening unit.

That said, be careful what changes you make. It's a really different army you've got going, and I am keen to find out how well it works. A few changes here and there might make the list a little more potent while still keeping it pretty different.

Just as a note, the average competitive list for most armies consists of 800-900pts of characters, so 1000pts really isn't that much of a stretch.

I do think it is a lot for an Empire army, though.